Post by High Priestess on Oct 5, 2015 4:23:47 GMT
Natasha shared in SEpt 2015
No enforcement of no-smoking policy (according to Airbnb)
I'm sure I read a post about no-smoking policy about a week ago but can't find it any more.
(I had a group of guests recently who smoked in the house. No-smoking policy is a number one House Rule posted in the listing description. There is $250 fine for any evidence of smoking.
That's actually the first time in two years of hosting that I encountered such a flat disregard of no smoking policy.
The guests showed up with a cigarette lit so I explained them where they can go and have smoke. They agreed.
Nevertheless they later continued to smoke. I reminded them in person and twice through Airbnb email to stop smoking, since I could smell it in our room. When they left the garbage bin was filled with cigarette butts and area was filled with an awful odor.
I tried to apply that fine to their security deposit, but I couldn't find how, because Airbnb changed its interface.
So I filed a claim with Airbnb.
And here is the most interesting part...Airbnb will only honor claim for actual damages, like the cost of air cleaning. It does not apply to "arbitrary fines".
I'm going back and forth with a CR that the guests agreed to a certain policy, and I have a proof in a form of emails repeatedly asking them to stop smoking while they were staying.
What's the point of having a no-smoking policy if we can't enforce it?
Anyone had a success with that issue?
Honestly, if it was just one occurrence I would be satisfied with simply reminding them, but because it was so in-your-face disregard, I feel like I need to pursue to pay the fine.
Natasha:
Airbnb replies:
1)
I hope this message finds you well. My name is Lucie and I work in Airbnb's Trust and Safety Department. I wanted to take this opportunity to address your concerns about potential future violations of your no-smoking rule. I am glad to see you have included information about this policy in your house rules. Unfortunately, as a third party, we are not in a position to enforce arbitrary fines and always require documentation of costs incurred before making any payout determination. In the case of smoking, we would ask that you provide us with receipts for professional cleaning and, where possible, photographic evidence of the smoking (cigarette butts, packaging, ash trays, etc).
As you may know, under our Terms and Conditions, we are only able to compensate for the actual cash value (i.e. fair market value), of the physical damages in question. Consequently, before we can remit payment to your account for any damages, we must be able to establish with our own accounting department, that we have obtained supporting documentation for all damages in question.
We understand your frustration and want to assure you that we’re constantly working on new features to minimize such incidents. We invite you to periodically check our Trust Center for updates: www.airbnb.com/trust
Please know that we are thankful to have you as a host in our community and look forward to the many positive experiences you will have using Airbnb moving forward.
2)
To claim the security deposit you will need to provide us documentation like receipts, invoices that repaired physical damages. I am very sorry but we are not in a position to enforce arbitrary fines. That's why I would advise you to send us for the damage in question.
3)
We are not able to cover any moral damages for not following the rules. To claim the security deposit it must be a physical damage ( the smell of smoke). If you want to charge the guest we need you to provide us a receipt ( for the cleaning to remove the smoke smell etc) Regarding the guest profile, this claim will be recorded for not respecting your house rules if they decide to book agin. I am very sorry for the inconvenience.
Keith:
one more thing.. you can contract with a "smoke abatement" service at a flat fee they can give you a receipt. but then there's no coverage for your time.
I think this is what the damage deposit is for, but it may also be that they only assess real damages. You likely can include your time if you deal with it yourself, but you can try charging it as an add on charge and see if the guest approves the payment.
In any case, your only recourse may be to give the guest a terrible review.
Natasha:
I believe confining damages to only physical ones sets a dangerous precedent that we can't enforce our own rules.
Damage is not only "smell removal".
How about second hand smoking?
Henry:
Even with physical damage they aren't exactly quick to help a host out unless the guests agrees to pay the damage amount.
Maybe next time turn the guest away? Or call air bnb and say you 'dont feel safe' with the guest.
Gina:
I agree with Henrik and Alexzandra. If a guest is violating your rules, call Airbnb right away and tell them you are going to ask the guest to leave and tell the guest they have to leave and they can call Airbnb to find them another host. This way Airbnb already has a complaint on file about that guest(s). I did that once and Airbnb took care of everything beautifully and even allowed me to keep the payment for guest entire stay.
Deborah:
If Airbnb would rather that we have to ask a guest to leave for not following our rules, as opposed to fining them, then I guess that is what we are being pushed to do.
Gina:
Airbnb does not have the authority to fine anyone. It is our homes, we as hosts and these are our rules.
Deborah:
No, Airbnb may not have the authority to fine, but we do. So perhaps instead of merely setting a security deposit on our AIrbnb listing, we could collect a cash security deposit from the guest. Then if there is a need to fine them for not following house rules we can do so because we have control of the security deposit.
No enforcement of no-smoking policy (according to Airbnb)
I'm sure I read a post about no-smoking policy about a week ago but can't find it any more.
(I had a group of guests recently who smoked in the house. No-smoking policy is a number one House Rule posted in the listing description. There is $250 fine for any evidence of smoking.
That's actually the first time in two years of hosting that I encountered such a flat disregard of no smoking policy.
The guests showed up with a cigarette lit so I explained them where they can go and have smoke. They agreed.
Nevertheless they later continued to smoke. I reminded them in person and twice through Airbnb email to stop smoking, since I could smell it in our room. When they left the garbage bin was filled with cigarette butts and area was filled with an awful odor.
I tried to apply that fine to their security deposit, but I couldn't find how, because Airbnb changed its interface.
So I filed a claim with Airbnb.
And here is the most interesting part...Airbnb will only honor claim for actual damages, like the cost of air cleaning. It does not apply to "arbitrary fines".
I'm going back and forth with a CR that the guests agreed to a certain policy, and I have a proof in a form of emails repeatedly asking them to stop smoking while they were staying.
What's the point of having a no-smoking policy if we can't enforce it?
Anyone had a success with that issue?
Honestly, if it was just one occurrence I would be satisfied with simply reminding them, but because it was so in-your-face disregard, I feel like I need to pursue to pay the fine.
Natasha:
Airbnb replies:
1)
I hope this message finds you well. My name is Lucie and I work in Airbnb's Trust and Safety Department. I wanted to take this opportunity to address your concerns about potential future violations of your no-smoking rule. I am glad to see you have included information about this policy in your house rules. Unfortunately, as a third party, we are not in a position to enforce arbitrary fines and always require documentation of costs incurred before making any payout determination. In the case of smoking, we would ask that you provide us with receipts for professional cleaning and, where possible, photographic evidence of the smoking (cigarette butts, packaging, ash trays, etc).
As you may know, under our Terms and Conditions, we are only able to compensate for the actual cash value (i.e. fair market value), of the physical damages in question. Consequently, before we can remit payment to your account for any damages, we must be able to establish with our own accounting department, that we have obtained supporting documentation for all damages in question.
We understand your frustration and want to assure you that we’re constantly working on new features to minimize such incidents. We invite you to periodically check our Trust Center for updates: www.airbnb.com/trust
Please know that we are thankful to have you as a host in our community and look forward to the many positive experiences you will have using Airbnb moving forward.
2)
To claim the security deposit you will need to provide us documentation like receipts, invoices that repaired physical damages. I am very sorry but we are not in a position to enforce arbitrary fines. That's why I would advise you to send us for the damage in question.
3)
We are not able to cover any moral damages for not following the rules. To claim the security deposit it must be a physical damage ( the smell of smoke). If you want to charge the guest we need you to provide us a receipt ( for the cleaning to remove the smoke smell etc) Regarding the guest profile, this claim will be recorded for not respecting your house rules if they decide to book agin. I am very sorry for the inconvenience.
Keith:
one more thing.. you can contract with a "smoke abatement" service at a flat fee they can give you a receipt. but then there's no coverage for your time.
I think this is what the damage deposit is for, but it may also be that they only assess real damages. You likely can include your time if you deal with it yourself, but you can try charging it as an add on charge and see if the guest approves the payment.
In any case, your only recourse may be to give the guest a terrible review.
Natasha:
I believe confining damages to only physical ones sets a dangerous precedent that we can't enforce our own rules.
Damage is not only "smell removal".
How about second hand smoking?
Henry:
Even with physical damage they aren't exactly quick to help a host out unless the guests agrees to pay the damage amount.
Maybe next time turn the guest away? Or call air bnb and say you 'dont feel safe' with the guest.
Gina:
I agree with Henrik and Alexzandra. If a guest is violating your rules, call Airbnb right away and tell them you are going to ask the guest to leave and tell the guest they have to leave and they can call Airbnb to find them another host. This way Airbnb already has a complaint on file about that guest(s). I did that once and Airbnb took care of everything beautifully and even allowed me to keep the payment for guest entire stay.
Deborah:
If Airbnb would rather that we have to ask a guest to leave for not following our rules, as opposed to fining them, then I guess that is what we are being pushed to do.
Gina:
Airbnb does not have the authority to fine anyone. It is our homes, we as hosts and these are our rules.
Deborah:
No, Airbnb may not have the authority to fine, but we do. So perhaps instead of merely setting a security deposit on our AIrbnb listing, we could collect a cash security deposit from the guest. Then if there is a need to fine them for not following house rules we can do so because we have control of the security deposit.