Post by High Priestess on May 28, 2016 2:25:23 GMT
Tracy shared on ANecdotes
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-90916
Reviewing angst
This is the first time I've struggled to review someone - I don't want it to be too negative, but it was an annoying/presumptuous guest who didn't follow the very clear rule about shoes/white carpet - and yet who also occasionally exhibited amazing kindness and was very friendly/open. It was more about issues related to 'lack of insight'/awareness of sharing space and a certain air of 'entitlement'. If I 'knew' she was the way she is, I would't have hosted her myself so want other hosts to be aware, but I also think that if she could develop some 'sharing skills' she'd be a really nice guest for someone (she is new to AirBNB).
22 comments
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Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
I've had recent angst over a review for not following house rules lately so I feel your pain.
I was thinking about removing shoes in a culture where shoe removal isn't expected - do some people think that they have smelly or ugly feet? I've heard some mention that guests have told them its unhygenic (sic - perhaps worried about catching a foot fungus from others). I think it's more hygenic because you're not tracking in possibly disgusting things from outside.
Did you ask her about why she didn't want to abide by the house rule about shoes?
At any rate, I'd probably sandwich it into a short, concise, cool review - good facts, then neutral/negative, then good.
[Guest] was friendly and open. A great guest for an entire home/apartment listing without white carpet and rules for removing shoes. Otherwise, a kind and cheery person.
Reply Like 4 likes
Deborah
Deborah2 years ago
Was this guest reminded to follow the rules at any point? Eg did you have a conversation with her about it, after realizing she wasn't following the rules? As much as it annoys me when guests break the rules that they are told and told again to read in advance, and be prepared to follow, without reminders, I do forgive those who after being reminded once, then get on track and follow the rules. I am much less forgiving of those who after reading the rules AND being reminded to follow the rules, when found not doing so, then continue to violate the rule they were asked to follow. In any case where that occurred I would be more likely to mention something in a public review, such as "guest was super friendly and kind, but had trouble with the shoes-off rule, and would do better in a house where this wasn't required." If you do feel that entitlement was the root issue, I would be less likely to minimize this violation of the rules, because the entitlement attitude can result in different types of rule violations in different households. Eg one time it is the shoes-off rule she feels she doesn't have to follow, the next time, it is the no-guests rule, and the time after that, she doesn't care about the hosts' rules for quiet hours.
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Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
Hi there. I don't think it was a cultural issue - she was American (as I am) and there's no real issue there I think. The thought on the shoes is because I have whitish carpet in two rooms (didn't mean to have it be so light but once it went down I couldn't change it)....it keeps things being tracked in and onto the carpet and they are still pristine after 8 years and a full year of busy hosting
So it is a concept that works!
I did remind her when I saw she kept her shoes on, and she took them off. However every single time she came into the house for the five day stay she kept them on, even when I reminded her of the rules. It was like it went in one ear and out the other. And she perpetually left lights on, would look for a mug and then leave EVERY cabinet she checked wide open (I hit my face on one going into the kitchen). I'll take your advice on the review, thank you!
Reply Like 1 reply
Christina
Christina2 years ago
It can still be cultural even if you are both American. I am American and was raised not to wear shoes in the house because you are tracking the dirt from outside and the subway into the house. My ex-husband and his family always wore shoes inside. That drove me crazy! I don't wear shoes inside and guests always ask if they should remove their shoes when they see mine are off. I offer slippers for guests and let them know I wash them after each guest.
Rosemarie
Rosemarie2 years ago
I like Julie & Eric's write up.
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Sheryl
Sheryl 2 years ago
I recently went to visit a relative for an extended visit and, while there, I took a side trip and stayed in an AIRBNB space. My experiences in both households gave me empathy for guests who can't remember to do what they've been asked. I found that, during my extended stay it took me days to get in the steady habit of doing things like putting the phone back on its dock and turning out the kitchen light at the end of each day. And even though instructed, during the tour at the AIRBNB space, I could not, for my life, remember how to turn on the night lights built in to the bed. I had to ask later because everything my host said just didn't quite register. I was invited warmly back to both places at the end of my stays so I think my hosts appreciated my overall efforts to be a good guest. But I can't say that I was perfect. I can say that it was not for lack of trying.
In both situations, I was really trying to be considerate of the household and attentive to instructions. But, being out of context and unaccustomed to everything just caused me to forget things.
I am not suggesting one approach or another for your review, just mentioning something to consider. That even the best-intentioned and most considerate guest may not learn all of your household practices - - - especially during a visit of just a few days.
Reply Like 4 likes
Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
Exactly - and she may be a guest with hard-to-break habits. The things you listed are worthy of mentioning to her in the private comments so she can decide if she wants to improve on being a shared space guest.
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Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
I do understand that and it's a good point. I would be more sympathetic if I had complex rules - it's really only don't wear shoes, don't slam the door(s), and don't smoke.
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Eleanor
Eleanor2 years ago
The reviews on the site mean nothing if we are not honest. Do it with kindness. Maybe mention you thought the carpet was going to be darker so this is your personal compromise too.
A semi neg review is not going to hurt a guest of subsequent reviews are good because she got the message.
Be honest or don't review her at all. "False positives" hurt the system in place.
Reply Like 2 likes
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
Thank you - I just reviewed her and I did exactly that. I was honest on the main point, pointed out her strengths and a very positive experience I had as well - commented privately as well in a way I think was constructive.
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Eleanor
Eleanor2 years ago
:-). Whew! Done!
Reply Like 1 like
KRIS & RODGER
KRIS & RODGER2 years ago
When guest arrive, I do tell them to remove their shoes, and that we do not waer them in the house at all. So far no problems on that. I have left a hard copy of the rules in their room to read, so they really have no excuse in not rememerbing what you have said
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KRIS & RODGER
KRIS & RODGER2 years ago
Brain freeze on checking spelling today...
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scott
scott2 years ago
I know this is a conversation about bigger things than shoes, but Tracey with your carpet have you ever thought about supplying cheap disposable slippers? I had some recent Asian visitors and they brought their own disposable slippers and tossed them out at the end of their stay. Sometimes people don't want to pad around in their socks - especially if they are going to be walking into the kitchen or bathroom.
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like
Stan & Maggie
Stan & Maggie2 years ago
Great idea Scott! In my background it's considered incredibly rude to take off your shoes on someone else's home . I hate visiting 'no shoe' homes and try to keep a thick pair of socks in my purse! Maggie
Rosemarie
Rosemarie2 years ago
Great suggestion, Scott.
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Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
I could not find any disposable slippers so I bought some dollar tree socks with grippers on the bottom and put them in a little basket. I will sanitize them if they guest ever uses them.
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Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
Actually I did - maybe it was my first try at it which turned me off - but they kind of 'insinuated' that I thought their feet were dirty! So it put me off. Maybe it is an odd experience though and I should reconsider? It is rare, though, that anyone has an issue with just taking shoes off when they come in. I'm on the second floor of a converted building and some guests insist on taking them off the minute they enter the communal hallway! (not required!)
Reply Like 1 reply
Stan & Maggie
Stan & Maggie2 years ago
Not every culture is the same
Fleur, Dan and kids
Fleur, Dan and kids2 years ago
In South America you always wear shoes in the house. They have indoor shoes though. Even going to the bathroom you put shoes on. The only time you don't wear shoes is in bed. It's hard to get used too for sure so just be weary of visitors from that part of the world.
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Maria
Maria2 years ago
The 'sandwich' technique of giving feedback is always a winner. Nice one Julie & Eric.
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Sheryl
Sheryl 2 years ago
Tracy, one more thing: At my front door, I have a basket for shoes and seating for taking shoes off and putting them on. It's all right there as a reminder. That, along with handy slippers, could be all a guest needs to remind them. And to the guest who doesn't like the insinuation that their feet are dirty, I remind the them that they walked through dirt and water and probably animal poo to get to my house so their shoes, just like mine, are indeed dirty!
Reply Like 3 replies
Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
That's what I do too - in the hallway outside the apartment I added a coat hook and doormat against the wall. They can sit on a cedar chest and remove their shoes. And you're right – I'm no germaphobe but everyone's outside shoes are dirty.
Rick
Rick2 years ago
Sheryl: I do the same thing!! I have a nice basket by the door with a little tag that says "shoes"-- & I've thrown a couple of my old shoes in there as a reminder!!
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
Hi Sheryl, Julie, Eric and Rick - I have a 'spot' where shoes go as well, and a stool. It is just inside the doorway in the foyer to the flat - shoes section on the floor, a spot to hang coats just above them, and a mirror and shelf for keys, lipstick etc
scott
scott2 years ago
It's an uncommon thing in Australia to take shoes off inside. Not sure why. Even back when more houses had carpet it was unusual.
Reply Like 2 replies
Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
Maybe the dingoes will eat your toes? it's really uncommon in my experience of growing up in the Midwest. Still not very common today.
Christina
Christina2 years ago
My in-laws are from the Midwest and they always wear shoes. My family, while several generations in NYC, my background is Mediterranean/middle eastern, where we don't wear shoes inside.
scott
scott2 years ago
Julie & Eric, it may be a fear of what might crawl into your shoes if they are left outside. We were always told as kids to check inside shoes for funnel web spiders before putting them on. I wonder whether it's also because we tend to live an outdoor life. When I get home from work, I will often wander in and out of the house dozens of times before I go to bed. I would go mad mucking around with shoes that often.
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like
Christina
Christina2 years ago
Our shoes are not left outside the house but left inside, next to the door.
Oliver
Oliver2 years ago
I would never take my shoes off ! No one in Europe take the shoes off when home . I have nice carpets and I wound never ask a host to remove the shoes at the entrance
Reply Like 5 replies
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
'No one in Europe' - well this is where I learned and came around to doing this as a routine. Everyone I knew in Scandanavia took shoes off, became a habit. In fact, in my London flat (second floor) it is actually a requirement of my lease because part of my flat is hardwood floors -- and the freeholder lives downstairs. It doesn't make exception for culture either. So he's well aware of people clomping around with shoes - and I don't like the noise or the crud that gets dragged in when people don't take them off. Make it a cultural issue, make it a preference, make it whatever -- but it is one of very few rules. If someone doesn't want to abide by the THREE whopping rules I have for whatever reason, they don't have to stay with me. I expect my guests to know my three whopping rules and they are discussed when people arrive so it's very clear.
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
These are said rules: If you can think of a better way to word them, let me know! "This is a STRICTLY nonsmoking flat. We can't host smokers even if you don't smoke in the flat. Sorry! The carpet is light and I try to avoid things being tracked inside on shoes. Please leave your shoes in the flat entryway when you come in. Rugs are available in the room for any dirty bits or mucky suitcases etc. Please close the flat door and communal door downstairs gently, and be careful when bringing luggage up and down the stairs so as to avoid damaging the paintwork." And I also add 'Enjoy yourself" but that is tongue in cheek - I try to make that the experience, and not the rule.
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
Sorry the paragraphs thing doesn't work on these forums
Christina
Christina2 years ago
Europe is not a monolith. As Tracy said, shoes off in Scandinavia and shoes off where I am from: Greece.
Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
Europe is where I learned to take my shoes off.
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-90916
Reviewing angst
This is the first time I've struggled to review someone - I don't want it to be too negative, but it was an annoying/presumptuous guest who didn't follow the very clear rule about shoes/white carpet - and yet who also occasionally exhibited amazing kindness and was very friendly/open. It was more about issues related to 'lack of insight'/awareness of sharing space and a certain air of 'entitlement'. If I 'knew' she was the way she is, I would't have hosted her myself so want other hosts to be aware, but I also think that if she could develop some 'sharing skills' she'd be a really nice guest for someone (she is new to AirBNB).
22 comments
Following
Like
Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
I've had recent angst over a review for not following house rules lately so I feel your pain.
I was thinking about removing shoes in a culture where shoe removal isn't expected - do some people think that they have smelly or ugly feet? I've heard some mention that guests have told them its unhygenic (sic - perhaps worried about catching a foot fungus from others). I think it's more hygenic because you're not tracking in possibly disgusting things from outside.
Did you ask her about why she didn't want to abide by the house rule about shoes?
At any rate, I'd probably sandwich it into a short, concise, cool review - good facts, then neutral/negative, then good.
[Guest] was friendly and open. A great guest for an entire home/apartment listing without white carpet and rules for removing shoes. Otherwise, a kind and cheery person.
Reply Like 4 likes
Deborah
Deborah2 years ago
Was this guest reminded to follow the rules at any point? Eg did you have a conversation with her about it, after realizing she wasn't following the rules? As much as it annoys me when guests break the rules that they are told and told again to read in advance, and be prepared to follow, without reminders, I do forgive those who after being reminded once, then get on track and follow the rules. I am much less forgiving of those who after reading the rules AND being reminded to follow the rules, when found not doing so, then continue to violate the rule they were asked to follow. In any case where that occurred I would be more likely to mention something in a public review, such as "guest was super friendly and kind, but had trouble with the shoes-off rule, and would do better in a house where this wasn't required." If you do feel that entitlement was the root issue, I would be less likely to minimize this violation of the rules, because the entitlement attitude can result in different types of rule violations in different households. Eg one time it is the shoes-off rule she feels she doesn't have to follow, the next time, it is the no-guests rule, and the time after that, she doesn't care about the hosts' rules for quiet hours.
Reply Like 2 likes
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
Hi there. I don't think it was a cultural issue - she was American (as I am) and there's no real issue there I think. The thought on the shoes is because I have whitish carpet in two rooms (didn't mean to have it be so light but once it went down I couldn't change it)....it keeps things being tracked in and onto the carpet and they are still pristine after 8 years and a full year of busy hosting
So it is a concept that works!I did remind her when I saw she kept her shoes on, and she took them off. However every single time she came into the house for the five day stay she kept them on, even when I reminded her of the rules. It was like it went in one ear and out the other. And she perpetually left lights on, would look for a mug and then leave EVERY cabinet she checked wide open (I hit my face on one going into the kitchen). I'll take your advice on the review, thank you!
Reply Like 1 reply
Christina
Christina2 years ago
It can still be cultural even if you are both American. I am American and was raised not to wear shoes in the house because you are tracking the dirt from outside and the subway into the house. My ex-husband and his family always wore shoes inside. That drove me crazy! I don't wear shoes inside and guests always ask if they should remove their shoes when they see mine are off. I offer slippers for guests and let them know I wash them after each guest.
Rosemarie
Rosemarie2 years ago
I like Julie & Eric's write up.
Reply Like
Sheryl
Sheryl 2 years ago
I recently went to visit a relative for an extended visit and, while there, I took a side trip and stayed in an AIRBNB space. My experiences in both households gave me empathy for guests who can't remember to do what they've been asked. I found that, during my extended stay it took me days to get in the steady habit of doing things like putting the phone back on its dock and turning out the kitchen light at the end of each day. And even though instructed, during the tour at the AIRBNB space, I could not, for my life, remember how to turn on the night lights built in to the bed. I had to ask later because everything my host said just didn't quite register. I was invited warmly back to both places at the end of my stays so I think my hosts appreciated my overall efforts to be a good guest. But I can't say that I was perfect. I can say that it was not for lack of trying.
In both situations, I was really trying to be considerate of the household and attentive to instructions. But, being out of context and unaccustomed to everything just caused me to forget things.
I am not suggesting one approach or another for your review, just mentioning something to consider. That even the best-intentioned and most considerate guest may not learn all of your household practices - - - especially during a visit of just a few days.
Reply Like 4 likes
Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
Exactly - and she may be a guest with hard-to-break habits. The things you listed are worthy of mentioning to her in the private comments so she can decide if she wants to improve on being a shared space guest.
Reply Like 1 like
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
I do understand that and it's a good point. I would be more sympathetic if I had complex rules - it's really only don't wear shoes, don't slam the door(s), and don't smoke.
Reply Like
Eleanor
Eleanor2 years ago
The reviews on the site mean nothing if we are not honest. Do it with kindness. Maybe mention you thought the carpet was going to be darker so this is your personal compromise too.
A semi neg review is not going to hurt a guest of subsequent reviews are good because she got the message.
Be honest or don't review her at all. "False positives" hurt the system in place.
Reply Like 2 likes
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
Thank you - I just reviewed her and I did exactly that. I was honest on the main point, pointed out her strengths and a very positive experience I had as well - commented privately as well in a way I think was constructive.
Reply Like 1 like
Eleanor
Eleanor2 years ago
:-). Whew! Done!
Reply Like 1 like
KRIS & RODGER
KRIS & RODGER2 years ago
When guest arrive, I do tell them to remove their shoes, and that we do not waer them in the house at all. So far no problems on that. I have left a hard copy of the rules in their room to read, so they really have no excuse in not rememerbing what you have said
Reply Like
KRIS & RODGER
KRIS & RODGER2 years ago
Brain freeze on checking spelling today...
Reply Like
scott
scott2 years ago
I know this is a conversation about bigger things than shoes, but Tracey with your carpet have you ever thought about supplying cheap disposable slippers? I had some recent Asian visitors and they brought their own disposable slippers and tossed them out at the end of their stay. Sometimes people don't want to pad around in their socks - especially if they are going to be walking into the kitchen or bathroom.
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like
Stan & Maggie
Stan & Maggie2 years ago
Great idea Scott! In my background it's considered incredibly rude to take off your shoes on someone else's home . I hate visiting 'no shoe' homes and try to keep a thick pair of socks in my purse! Maggie
Rosemarie
Rosemarie2 years ago
Great suggestion, Scott.
Reply Like
Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
I could not find any disposable slippers so I bought some dollar tree socks with grippers on the bottom and put them in a little basket. I will sanitize them if they guest ever uses them.
Reply Like
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
Actually I did - maybe it was my first try at it which turned me off - but they kind of 'insinuated' that I thought their feet were dirty! So it put me off. Maybe it is an odd experience though and I should reconsider? It is rare, though, that anyone has an issue with just taking shoes off when they come in. I'm on the second floor of a converted building and some guests insist on taking them off the minute they enter the communal hallway! (not required!)
Reply Like 1 reply
Stan & Maggie
Stan & Maggie2 years ago
Not every culture is the same
Fleur, Dan and kids
Fleur, Dan and kids2 years ago
In South America you always wear shoes in the house. They have indoor shoes though. Even going to the bathroom you put shoes on. The only time you don't wear shoes is in bed. It's hard to get used too for sure so just be weary of visitors from that part of the world.
Reply Like 1 like
Maria
Maria2 years ago
The 'sandwich' technique of giving feedback is always a winner. Nice one Julie & Eric.
Reply Like
Sheryl
Sheryl 2 years ago
Tracy, one more thing: At my front door, I have a basket for shoes and seating for taking shoes off and putting them on. It's all right there as a reminder. That, along with handy slippers, could be all a guest needs to remind them. And to the guest who doesn't like the insinuation that their feet are dirty, I remind the them that they walked through dirt and water and probably animal poo to get to my house so their shoes, just like mine, are indeed dirty!
Reply Like 3 replies
Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
That's what I do too - in the hallway outside the apartment I added a coat hook and doormat against the wall. They can sit on a cedar chest and remove their shoes. And you're right – I'm no germaphobe but everyone's outside shoes are dirty.
Rick
Rick2 years ago
Sheryl: I do the same thing!! I have a nice basket by the door with a little tag that says "shoes"-- & I've thrown a couple of my old shoes in there as a reminder!!
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
Hi Sheryl, Julie, Eric and Rick - I have a 'spot' where shoes go as well, and a stool. It is just inside the doorway in the foyer to the flat - shoes section on the floor, a spot to hang coats just above them, and a mirror and shelf for keys, lipstick etc
scott
scott2 years ago
It's an uncommon thing in Australia to take shoes off inside. Not sure why. Even back when more houses had carpet it was unusual.
Reply Like 2 replies
Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
Maybe the dingoes will eat your toes?
it's really uncommon in my experience of growing up in the Midwest. Still not very common today.Christina
Christina2 years ago
My in-laws are from the Midwest and they always wear shoes. My family, while several generations in NYC, my background is Mediterranean/middle eastern, where we don't wear shoes inside.
scott
scott2 years ago
Julie & Eric, it may be a fear of what might crawl into your shoes if they are left outside. We were always told as kids to check inside shoes for funnel web spiders before putting them on. I wonder whether it's also because we tend to live an outdoor life. When I get home from work, I will often wander in and out of the house dozens of times before I go to bed. I would go mad mucking around with shoes that often.
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like
Christina
Christina2 years ago
Our shoes are not left outside the house but left inside, next to the door.
Oliver
Oliver2 years ago
I would never take my shoes off ! No one in Europe take the shoes off when home . I have nice carpets and I wound never ask a host to remove the shoes at the entrance
Reply Like 5 replies
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
'No one in Europe' - well this is where I learned and came around to doing this as a routine. Everyone I knew in Scandanavia took shoes off, became a habit. In fact, in my London flat (second floor) it is actually a requirement of my lease because part of my flat is hardwood floors -- and the freeholder lives downstairs. It doesn't make exception for culture either. So he's well aware of people clomping around with shoes - and I don't like the noise or the crud that gets dragged in when people don't take them off. Make it a cultural issue, make it a preference, make it whatever -- but it is one of very few rules. If someone doesn't want to abide by the THREE whopping rules I have for whatever reason, they don't have to stay with me. I expect my guests to know my three whopping rules and they are discussed when people arrive so it's very clear.
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
These are said rules: If you can think of a better way to word them, let me know! "This is a STRICTLY nonsmoking flat. We can't host smokers even if you don't smoke in the flat. Sorry! The carpet is light and I try to avoid things being tracked inside on shoes. Please leave your shoes in the flat entryway when you come in. Rugs are available in the room for any dirty bits or mucky suitcases etc. Please close the flat door and communal door downstairs gently, and be careful when bringing luggage up and down the stairs so as to avoid damaging the paintwork." And I also add 'Enjoy yourself" but that is tongue in cheek - I try to make that the experience, and not the rule.
Tracy
Tracy2 years ago
Sorry the paragraphs thing doesn't work on these forums
Christina
Christina2 years ago
Europe is not a monolith. As Tracy said, shoes off in Scandinavia and shoes off where I am from: Greece.
Julie and Eric
Julie and Eric2 years ago
Europe is where I learned to take my shoes off.