Post by High Priestess on Dec 16, 2018 22:42:31 GMT
Can a guest who never checks in leave a review? No.
John
John in Toronto, Canada
Level 4
07-06-2018 10:41 AM
There seems to be quite a lot of confusion as it relates to the policies around guests who are allowed to leave a review without actually seeing your space.
I've personally experienced this issue myself, where a guest cancelled on check in day, after check in time, but before actually seeing the space. The review was harsh 1 stars all around, including 1 star for cleanliness.
How is it possible that a guest should be able to leave a review without even seeing your space? The answer is they can't. But we'll get to that...
From my experience dealing with a number of Airbnb support agents through messaging, phone, and on twitter... most support agents stick to a story similar to this:
"During our initial conversation you informed me that you had a guest post a review that you did not agree with, as the guest had not stayed at your listing, and you requested the review be taken down. After I investigated the matter, searching through the message thread and checking the review itself. Having consulted my team and supervisor on the matter, we have determined that this review does not violate Airbnb's content policy, Airbnb's nondiscrimination policy, or Airbnb's extortion policy. In which we base our decision to remove reviews."
Objectively most agents agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense that a guest should be able to review your space against things like cleanliness if they've never experienced or even seen your space. Unfortuntely they feel like they don't have a mechanism or a clear policy to support the removal of reviews from guests who have never actually seen your space. So they leave the review up.
The good news of course is that some teams at Airbnb have stated quite clearly what the policy should support.
Here check this out... this is the latest Global Host Q&A session with Brian Chesky and Clara Liang (Product team)... it's made pretty clear that a guest should NOT be allowed to leave a review if they haven't seen your space. Here's the link to the video (the 45 minute mark is where it begins): www.ustream.tv/recorded/115836032
Here is a transcription of the video:
"There's a weird overlap that can happen on a last minute cancellation on the day of check-in. So let's say your check-in time is 2 o'clock, and the guest flight is delayed or something and they end up cancelling at 3 o'clock... they haven't seen your house yet but the system thinks they are checked in... cause your checkin time is 2 o'clock there's a weird window on checkin day where its possible they have the opportunity to leave a review but they didn't actually see your place." - Clara at Airbnb
She goes on to provide a suggestion for how to deal with this issue...
"and if that ever happens to you just give us a call and we'll help get that review removed." - Clara at Airbnb
Wait. What?!
So... most support agents say guests ARE allowed to leave a review even if they haven't seen your space and yet other teams at Airbnb has made it clear that they should NOT be allowed to leave a review. Hmm. Quite the contradiction. This is frustrating.
I was told no in messages, on the phone (by multiple agents), and on twitter... I was about to give up. For me that single 1 star review knocked me out of superhost status, and I got a message that my listing was demoted for 5 days, and some other penalties... so I decided to give it one more shot.
I called Airbnb again, and asked to speak with a case manager who was not familiar with any of my existing threads. I explained my situation and linked them to the video and asked them to just watch that section with their supervisor. After all the main content policy has a very important statement built in... which reads "We reserve the right to remove any content, in whole or part, that violates these guidelines, our Terms of Service, our Community Standards, or for any other reason at our sole discretion."... the last part is the best part... "for any other reason at our sole descretion."
Luckily for me the last agent I spoke with used some descretion and watched the video, and understood what the intent of the review system actually is. They agreed that a guest should NOT be able to leave a review if they have not seen your space.
The review was removed from my listing and I'm eligible for superhost again (wish me luck!).
Suggestions for hosts:
So if you're ever in the position where a guest has left you a review without seeing your space I'd suggest you share that video link with your case manager.
Keep you cool, the intent of this rule is clear so just do your best to explain the situation.
If you get a no answer, call back and ask if you can speak to another agent who is unfamiliar with your case.
Suggestions for Airbnb:
Post this policy somewhere
Communicate it to your support teams (from the agents I spoke with this type of support case seems to be very common and likely quite time consuming on your end, and highly frustrating for hosts.
Consider inacting an actual 'checked in' action. To avoid this 'weird window' if a guest hit a 'I've checked in' button... the system could tell if they had actually checked-in and seen the space. If they have, great then they are eligible to leave a review, if they haven't then they're ineligble.
Hopefully this posts helps someone else out there!
Happy hosting!
John
Tags:cancellationContent Policyreviews
Add a tag
1162 Views
18 Replies
1 2
Linda
Linda in La Quinta, CA
Level 10
07-06-2018 01:03 PM
@john Apparently it DOES pay to watch and/or listen to the Host Q and A. Good for you! Air BNB will not be the first company to have internal communication problems, so your persistence was rewarded. I understand that so much of this platform is automated and we must have human intervention when something is fundamentally flawed.
John
John in Toronto, Canada
Level 4
07-06-2018 02:50 PM
Thanks linda hopefully this helps save another host some time and effort. Also big shout out to @ute and lizzie who originally helped to share the host Q&A and posting about this policy.
Bryce
Bryce in Cincinnati, OH
Level 2
07-11-2018 06:01 AM
Test
Bryce
Bryce in Cincinnati, OH
Level 2
07-11-2018 06:18 AM
Another Test
Lois
Lois in Los Angeles, CA
Level 5
07-07-2018 11:30 AM
Thank you it has just happen to me I will lost superhost this July . I will try to call again and get a new agent.
Jess
Jess in Eugene, OR
Level 10
07-07-2018 02:41 PM
@john I think I love you.
Karen
Karen in Durham, NC
Level 3
07-11-2018 07:35 AM
@john Thanks so much for taking the time to make this post. While it's not happened to me . . . yet, I find the whole experience rather shocking. It's hard to believe you had to go through that through no doing of your own. The guest that did this should have some kind of repercussions as well, IMO.
Colleen
Colleen in Stillwater Lake, Canada
Level 1
07-11-2018 09:15 AM
Maybe a good suggestion is that the host should answer an automatic post if there guest checked in? That way they can confirm it prior to allowing the guest to post anything. Must be a way that their program can allow this to be put on as a safeguard to hosts. Would save airbnb a bunch of headaches in the long run. Sure an IT person could add that to their program. Just a thought.
Ian & Janice
Ian & Janice in Longmont, CO
Level 2
07-28-2018 01:50 PM
This is concrerning to me also. I am new to Airbnb and have only hosted 3 times so far. I had a guest take me up on a great deal I ran as a promotional. She booked for herself and a friend for five days. "They were waiting for their apatment to be ready". She was newly registered with no reviews and her friend was only identified by a first name. The day before their arival but two hours prior to check in the friend calls our private cell to tell us that this girl is not his girlfriend and set up the rental with his credit card and he wants this cancelled. First of all I had not made the arrangements with him and this raised red flags. I told him that I cannot cancel the reservation but he should talk with his friend and get it cancelled on the Airbnb site and that he still had time before he owed us a nights stay. I reinforced that cancelling was no problem but please do it quickly so we could open up the booking to someone else. He was pushing me to do it "he did not know how". He had obviously gotten our private phone number so he had experience navigating the site or his friend had provided it to him and could cancel the booking herself. I advised him to call Airbnb.
My husband and I were traveling across the country from a wedding ( had picked up his call in an airport). We had gotten home late and did not check our phones before retiring. In the morning were texts on our private phone (not on the Airbnb site/app) from the girl stating she had tried to cancel on the site and was not able to do it and they needed us to take care of it. They understood there was a penalty fee. I called Airbnb taking over an hour of my time - copying her texts and sending them to the Airbnb "case manager" who resolved the issue and openned up our cottage for booking.
We were able to rent our place for 3 nights and they paid us one night so not too much of a loss.
Now I am being asked to review the guest so they are probably being asked to review us - I was not going to review them but what if they review us negatively?
I honestly would have waived the one night penalty for the late cancel if they cancelled it on their own but was frustrated because I had to take time out of my day ( was having grandkids over for breakfast) to settle their issue - now it sounds like I may need to spend my time resolving a negative review if they leave one. thoughts? Janice
Linda
Linda in La Quinta, CA
Level 10
07-28-2018 07:05 PM
@ian & Janice Just wait to see if you get an email to provide a review and please do that. Just an honest summary that the guests had difficulty with the process then a potential host could see that these guests might be a problem with the Air BNB process causing extra effort on the host's part.
If they review, which I doubt, just a short comment that the process was difficult for them resulting in a cancellation.
I have experienced friends wanting to do the "Air BNB thing" but are totally uneducated about how to navigate the platform. They mess things up and get really frustrated. Need I say that they are part of the Baby Boomer generation...
Ian & Janice
Ian & Janice in Longmont, CO
Level 2
07-28-2018 11:18 PM
Thanks Linda - appreciate the to the point - just the facts approach you suggested.
Sarah
Sarah in Sayulita, Mexico
Level 10
07-28-2018 09:46 PM
@ian & Janice I'd contact Airbnb, refer them to how they handled this non-stay, and ask them to remove the review requests to both you and the "guest who never stayed. If they say they can't do that- ask them why "Guests can only leave a review after an actual stay or experience" is at the top of your Profile page if it isn't true.
Ian & Janice
Ian & Janice in Longmont, CO
Level 2
07-28-2018 11:16 PM
Thank you for the advice - appreciate you taking the time.
Sarah
Sarah in Sayulita, Mexico
Level 10
07-28-2018 08:23 PM
I was looking at another host's profile the other day and was surprised to see under their name and before their reviews a line which said "Guests can only leave a review after an actual stay or experience". This was part of the Airbnb page set-up, not something the host wrote. I thought "Wow, Airbnb, good for you, finally". I've since been looking at others to see if it appears there, I see it on some, but not others.
Community Center All Discussion Rooms Help
Can a guest who never checks in leave a review? No.
Show original thread
18 Replies
1 2
Letti
Letti in Atascosa, TX
Level 10
07-28-2018 09:17 PM
sarah Wow! I have not seen that one yet. I hope it becomes standard policy.
Sarah
Sarah in Sayulita, Mexico
Level 10
07-28-2018 09:22 PM
@letti I just did a quick recon- it's on all the non-Superhosts profiles, but not on the Superhosts. On Superhosts, it talks about us being Superhosts. Home Highlights, round 2.
Ian & Janice
Ian & Janice in Longmont, CO
Level 2
07-28-2018 09:02 PM
Since the reservation was cancelled by me the day of checkin and the guests were charged for the first day - I think the airbnb computerized systemthinks they stayed at our cottage -
Az
Az in Huntington Beach, CA
Level 2
Tuesday
I would say it is pretty human factored, if the review will be taken out or not. That is the main criteria for now and main problem. I think the factor of other reviews should also be taken into consideration, lets say if someone has like 100 4 and 5 star reviews and if someone comes and puts a 1 star review without any explanation in similar case as yours it should be taken into consideration. Unfortunately currently there is no policy regulating this issue.
John
John in Toronto, Canada
Level 4
07-06-2018 10:41 AM
There seems to be quite a lot of confusion as it relates to the policies around guests who are allowed to leave a review without actually seeing your space.
I've personally experienced this issue myself, where a guest cancelled on check in day, after check in time, but before actually seeing the space. The review was harsh 1 stars all around, including 1 star for cleanliness.
How is it possible that a guest should be able to leave a review without even seeing your space? The answer is they can't. But we'll get to that...
From my experience dealing with a number of Airbnb support agents through messaging, phone, and on twitter... most support agents stick to a story similar to this:
"During our initial conversation you informed me that you had a guest post a review that you did not agree with, as the guest had not stayed at your listing, and you requested the review be taken down. After I investigated the matter, searching through the message thread and checking the review itself. Having consulted my team and supervisor on the matter, we have determined that this review does not violate Airbnb's content policy, Airbnb's nondiscrimination policy, or Airbnb's extortion policy. In which we base our decision to remove reviews."
Objectively most agents agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense that a guest should be able to review your space against things like cleanliness if they've never experienced or even seen your space. Unfortuntely they feel like they don't have a mechanism or a clear policy to support the removal of reviews from guests who have never actually seen your space. So they leave the review up.
The good news of course is that some teams at Airbnb have stated quite clearly what the policy should support.
Here check this out... this is the latest Global Host Q&A session with Brian Chesky and Clara Liang (Product team)... it's made pretty clear that a guest should NOT be allowed to leave a review if they haven't seen your space. Here's the link to the video (the 45 minute mark is where it begins): www.ustream.tv/recorded/115836032
Here is a transcription of the video:
"There's a weird overlap that can happen on a last minute cancellation on the day of check-in. So let's say your check-in time is 2 o'clock, and the guest flight is delayed or something and they end up cancelling at 3 o'clock... they haven't seen your house yet but the system thinks they are checked in... cause your checkin time is 2 o'clock there's a weird window on checkin day where its possible they have the opportunity to leave a review but they didn't actually see your place." - Clara at Airbnb
She goes on to provide a suggestion for how to deal with this issue...
"and if that ever happens to you just give us a call and we'll help get that review removed." - Clara at Airbnb
Wait. What?!
So... most support agents say guests ARE allowed to leave a review even if they haven't seen your space and yet other teams at Airbnb has made it clear that they should NOT be allowed to leave a review. Hmm. Quite the contradiction. This is frustrating.
I was told no in messages, on the phone (by multiple agents), and on twitter... I was about to give up. For me that single 1 star review knocked me out of superhost status, and I got a message that my listing was demoted for 5 days, and some other penalties... so I decided to give it one more shot.
I called Airbnb again, and asked to speak with a case manager who was not familiar with any of my existing threads. I explained my situation and linked them to the video and asked them to just watch that section with their supervisor. After all the main content policy has a very important statement built in... which reads "We reserve the right to remove any content, in whole or part, that violates these guidelines, our Terms of Service, our Community Standards, or for any other reason at our sole discretion."... the last part is the best part... "for any other reason at our sole descretion."
Luckily for me the last agent I spoke with used some descretion and watched the video, and understood what the intent of the review system actually is. They agreed that a guest should NOT be able to leave a review if they have not seen your space.
The review was removed from my listing and I'm eligible for superhost again (wish me luck!).
Suggestions for hosts:
So if you're ever in the position where a guest has left you a review without seeing your space I'd suggest you share that video link with your case manager.
Keep you cool, the intent of this rule is clear so just do your best to explain the situation.
If you get a no answer, call back and ask if you can speak to another agent who is unfamiliar with your case.
Suggestions for Airbnb:
Post this policy somewhere
Communicate it to your support teams (from the agents I spoke with this type of support case seems to be very common and likely quite time consuming on your end, and highly frustrating for hosts.
Consider inacting an actual 'checked in' action. To avoid this 'weird window' if a guest hit a 'I've checked in' button... the system could tell if they had actually checked-in and seen the space. If they have, great then they are eligible to leave a review, if they haven't then they're ineligble.
Hopefully this posts helps someone else out there!
Happy hosting!
John
Tags:cancellationContent Policyreviews
Add a tag
1162 Views
18 Replies
1 2
Linda
Linda in La Quinta, CA
Level 10
07-06-2018 01:03 PM
@john Apparently it DOES pay to watch and/or listen to the Host Q and A. Good for you! Air BNB will not be the first company to have internal communication problems, so your persistence was rewarded. I understand that so much of this platform is automated and we must have human intervention when something is fundamentally flawed.
John
John in Toronto, Canada
Level 4
07-06-2018 02:50 PM
Thanks linda hopefully this helps save another host some time and effort. Also big shout out to @ute and lizzie who originally helped to share the host Q&A and posting about this policy.
Bryce
Bryce in Cincinnati, OH
Level 2
07-11-2018 06:01 AM
Test
Bryce
Bryce in Cincinnati, OH
Level 2
07-11-2018 06:18 AM
Another Test
Lois
Lois in Los Angeles, CA
Level 5
07-07-2018 11:30 AM
Thank you it has just happen to me I will lost superhost this July . I will try to call again and get a new agent.
Jess
Jess in Eugene, OR
Level 10
07-07-2018 02:41 PM
@john I think I love you.
Karen
Karen in Durham, NC
Level 3
07-11-2018 07:35 AM
@john Thanks so much for taking the time to make this post. While it's not happened to me . . . yet, I find the whole experience rather shocking. It's hard to believe you had to go through that through no doing of your own. The guest that did this should have some kind of repercussions as well, IMO.
Colleen
Colleen in Stillwater Lake, Canada
Level 1
07-11-2018 09:15 AM
Maybe a good suggestion is that the host should answer an automatic post if there guest checked in? That way they can confirm it prior to allowing the guest to post anything. Must be a way that their program can allow this to be put on as a safeguard to hosts. Would save airbnb a bunch of headaches in the long run. Sure an IT person could add that to their program. Just a thought.
Ian & Janice
Ian & Janice in Longmont, CO
Level 2
07-28-2018 01:50 PM
This is concrerning to me also. I am new to Airbnb and have only hosted 3 times so far. I had a guest take me up on a great deal I ran as a promotional. She booked for herself and a friend for five days. "They were waiting for their apatment to be ready". She was newly registered with no reviews and her friend was only identified by a first name. The day before their arival but two hours prior to check in the friend calls our private cell to tell us that this girl is not his girlfriend and set up the rental with his credit card and he wants this cancelled. First of all I had not made the arrangements with him and this raised red flags. I told him that I cannot cancel the reservation but he should talk with his friend and get it cancelled on the Airbnb site and that he still had time before he owed us a nights stay. I reinforced that cancelling was no problem but please do it quickly so we could open up the booking to someone else. He was pushing me to do it "he did not know how". He had obviously gotten our private phone number so he had experience navigating the site or his friend had provided it to him and could cancel the booking herself. I advised him to call Airbnb.
My husband and I were traveling across the country from a wedding ( had picked up his call in an airport). We had gotten home late and did not check our phones before retiring. In the morning were texts on our private phone (not on the Airbnb site/app) from the girl stating she had tried to cancel on the site and was not able to do it and they needed us to take care of it. They understood there was a penalty fee. I called Airbnb taking over an hour of my time - copying her texts and sending them to the Airbnb "case manager" who resolved the issue and openned up our cottage for booking.
We were able to rent our place for 3 nights and they paid us one night so not too much of a loss.
Now I am being asked to review the guest so they are probably being asked to review us - I was not going to review them but what if they review us negatively?
I honestly would have waived the one night penalty for the late cancel if they cancelled it on their own but was frustrated because I had to take time out of my day ( was having grandkids over for breakfast) to settle their issue - now it sounds like I may need to spend my time resolving a negative review if they leave one. thoughts? Janice
Linda
Linda in La Quinta, CA
Level 10
07-28-2018 07:05 PM
@ian & Janice Just wait to see if you get an email to provide a review and please do that. Just an honest summary that the guests had difficulty with the process then a potential host could see that these guests might be a problem with the Air BNB process causing extra effort on the host's part.
If they review, which I doubt, just a short comment that the process was difficult for them resulting in a cancellation.
I have experienced friends wanting to do the "Air BNB thing" but are totally uneducated about how to navigate the platform. They mess things up and get really frustrated. Need I say that they are part of the Baby Boomer generation...
Ian & Janice
Ian & Janice in Longmont, CO
Level 2
07-28-2018 11:18 PM
Thanks Linda - appreciate the to the point - just the facts approach you suggested.
Sarah
Sarah in Sayulita, Mexico
Level 10
07-28-2018 09:46 PM
@ian & Janice I'd contact Airbnb, refer them to how they handled this non-stay, and ask them to remove the review requests to both you and the "guest who never stayed. If they say they can't do that- ask them why "Guests can only leave a review after an actual stay or experience" is at the top of your Profile page if it isn't true.
Ian & Janice
Ian & Janice in Longmont, CO
Level 2
07-28-2018 11:16 PM
Thank you for the advice - appreciate you taking the time.
Sarah
Sarah in Sayulita, Mexico
Level 10
07-28-2018 08:23 PM
I was looking at another host's profile the other day and was surprised to see under their name and before their reviews a line which said "Guests can only leave a review after an actual stay or experience". This was part of the Airbnb page set-up, not something the host wrote. I thought "Wow, Airbnb, good for you, finally". I've since been looking at others to see if it appears there, I see it on some, but not others.
Community Center All Discussion Rooms Help
Can a guest who never checks in leave a review? No.
Show original thread
18 Replies
1 2
Letti
Letti in Atascosa, TX
Level 10
07-28-2018 09:17 PM
sarah Wow! I have not seen that one yet. I hope it becomes standard policy.
Sarah
Sarah in Sayulita, Mexico
Level 10
07-28-2018 09:22 PM
@letti I just did a quick recon- it's on all the non-Superhosts profiles, but not on the Superhosts. On Superhosts, it talks about us being Superhosts. Home Highlights, round 2.
Ian & Janice
Ian & Janice in Longmont, CO
Level 2
07-28-2018 09:02 PM
Since the reservation was cancelled by me the day of checkin and the guests were charged for the first day - I think the airbnb computerized systemthinks they stayed at our cottage -
Az
Az in Huntington Beach, CA
Level 2
Tuesday
I would say it is pretty human factored, if the review will be taken out or not. That is the main criteria for now and main problem. I think the factor of other reviews should also be taken into consideration, lets say if someone has like 100 4 and 5 star reviews and if someone comes and puts a 1 star review without any explanation in similar case as yours it should be taken into consideration. Unfortunately currently there is no policy regulating this issue.