Updated thread from NHF on this issue:
Fleur, Dan and kids shared March 7 2016
Heads up, infants are now free!
Yep in their wisdom they have a new drop down menu where you select ages of guests. And children 0-3 are now free and not considered in the number of guests! Yep so my maximum occupancy is for 4 but now 4 adults could turn up with 4 babies, free of charge and totally going over my maximum occupancy. What the hell are they thinking?
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Deborah
Deborah4 days ago
Fleur you beat me to it, I was just going to post this on here -- but here I will post the link to the Airbnb Facebook page where they state this.
See here:
tinyurl.com/jn7c9ofReply Like 2 replies•1 like Delete
Deborah
Deborah4 days ago
tinyurl.com/jn7c9of Fleur, Dan and kids
Fleur, Dan and kids4 days ago
It's mind boggling. I'm tempted to hide my listing until they fix it up. They finally have a drop down menu for age and they totally screw it up.
Deborah
Deborah4 days ago
It will be infuriating to many hosts, this step Airbnb is taking. They are basically undermining hosts' own rules, when hosts state that infants or people of any age must be counted in the guest count, and they are also undermining hosts who wish to charge for infants, as this new Airbnb policy makes it appear that infants will all be accepted for free by hosts, regardless of the hosts' own preference on the matter!
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Queenie & Ted
Queenie & Ted4 days ago
Why in the world would they release a host infringement like this without test marketing it? It seems that Airbnb uses it's live platform as a test site. I expect it to vanish as quickly as it appeared.
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Michale
Michale4 days ago
So I'm guessing you have to make sure the listings are not family/kid friendly in the amenities section. I had been considering this because of a couple of manipulative families.
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Queenie & Ted
Queenie & Ted4 days ago
But if toddlers are 'free', there is nothing to stop guests from showing up anywhere - family friendly or not- with 'babies' in tow. Hosts know that guests barely read anything. Many people, not just guests, associate 'free' with 'allowed'.
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Louise
Louise4 days ago
Not only are they free, but they don't even get counted in the guest numbers.
Actually, this could be a good thing. If little Search and Destroy aren't actually legally present, then I guess I don't have to provide them with towels, soap, milk, hot water, power outlet covers, stair gates, cupboard locks or even oxygen. I can just stash them under the stairs along with all the other guest luggage. And when there are faeces crusted diapers brimming from the waste basket, red marker frescoes on my freshly painted walls and semi-masticated cruskits pounded into the carpet, I'll know it had to be adult culprit. This is going to be so, so much fun at review time.
"Alice and Jim were lovely guests, but they left a few cleaning challenges. They left their soiled diapers in the bedroom waste bin and Jim's little toy cars were strewn all over the floor including in the toilet. Alice appears to have used her lipstick to draw on my walls and there was a very small pair of Thomas the Tank Engine jocks and most of a My Little Pony sucked into the inlet pipe of the pool filter, for which Jim apologised profusely."
Best of all, it means I don't even have to keep an eye on Fluffy. This is a huge relief, because there's nothing more a Doberman loves than a juicy chunk of toddler thigh - especially when it's home delivered.
But bestest, best of all, there's none of that pesky 'rescuing toddlers from a burning building' nonsense that would otherwise be necessary if they were actually present on the inevitable day when the fire sweeps up the gully.
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Deepak Rally Chopra
Deepak Rally Chopra4 days ago
i have j c penny beds that too fire proof , guess , have to take a deposit of 500 gbp if o t0 5 age kids are included and no problem as far as they pay for spoiling the beds , mattresses and other items .
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Louise
Louise4 days ago
Sorry, but you're delusional. You won't get a penny of that security deposit if the kids destroy those mattresses, or anything else for that matter.
I just had a little darling deliberately draw with red and green marker all over my walls and on every single panel of my sofa. The parents admitted to it, eventually, but only after I'd handed the matter over to Airbnb to resolve.
My claim was refused by Airbnb because I couldn't produce a receipt for cleaning the sofa ( I didn't even bother claiming for the walls - I just painted over it). As I explained, again, and again, and again, there was no receipt yet as I had to wait for today, Sunday, to have the sofa cleaned as it was the first day without guests for any 48 hour period. No, they couldn't wait, and refused my claim yesterday.
I am never, ever hosting toddlers again and my trust and regard for Airbnb and the protection afforded by their Security Deposit system is utterly destroyed.
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Deepak Rally Chopra
Deepak Rally Chopra4 days ago
we are committed to a life where airbnb gets free properties in 190 countries our homes get destroyed airbnb make their millions and then the security cover they provide us is a ........
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Mig
Mig4 days ago
My property is unsuitable for children. If anyone books and does not disclose children, they will not be admitted into my property. No ifs or buts, drop down menu or not. It is not going to happen.
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C C
C C4 days ago
Me neither, Mig. I guess no more Instant Book & a new layer of questions--Are you sure there's no kids? Same goes for dogs. As long as they still pee, they won't be staying at my house.
Mig
Mig3 days ago
No instant book at all. Glad you reminded me to re-hash my questions.
C C
C C3 days ago
Lol! What next--my guess: they eliminate our ability to review guests....
Deepak Rally Chopra
Deepak Rally Chopra4 days ago
if i allow kids my neighbours alsation dog is going to create a ruckus like his owner , here i ask my guests to be discreet , try telling that to children
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helga
helga4 days ago
I wanted to comment on Facebook but I do not find the page where you took the screenshots, Deborah. Clearly they did not discuss this question with an European lawyer. It opens the doors to all kind of troubles and not only for hapless hosts:
An example: I do not wish kids in my Paris atelier, as they are dangerous to my artwork but most of all they would be very much in danger themselves. Let's say a family shows up with one kid announced and two toddlers unannounced. If I refuse them, airbnb might side with them now and I'd lose the money, what I can't afford when I already engaged costs for my own trip to free the space. So I might accept them. 5 persons are hell in the small place but parents always believe their kids are calm and don't move. I have two staircases to two lofts. It's impossible to watch three kids (I had such requests already for up to five!!! kids) So lets say one kid falls down and breaks his leg or his neck. Maybe in falling, it holds on in vain to an irreplaceable artwork for good measure. Who will sue whom then? The public attorney will decide to step in too, and everyone will be engaged in 6 years of lawsuits through three instances. In the end, it will probably be airbnb who will have to foot the bill here, as they are in the position of force and imposed the rule whilst the consumers would be justified to trust in consumer protection. The kid will be still dead, my artwork still destroyed and I very much prefer never to see the inside of a holding cell which would be a guarantee here in case of a dead kid.
-----
Second consideration: In many European systems, when you impose your rules on a business partner who is exclusively working with one partner, is disadvantaged by the terms, clearly does not want them,but you force him to comply by the weight of your dominant position, you no longer have a business partner, you have an employee. - Till now, airbnb avoided that trap adroitly, Uber already had that brought against them. I remember a reality show on tv, where the producer had to face all the costs of having had "employees" not candidates. They told the "candidates" what to say, which is quite common in reality" tv shows and they were considered employees then. The producer had to pay holiday pay, health and retirement insurance and lay off indemnities for the evicted candidates.
The bets are open which country or city will bring that argument first. I'd say either Paris or a German town. Or maybe Vienna.
- Deborah, if you still have access to that Facebook discussion, could you copy my argument there please?
-
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Deborah
Deborah4 days ago
Hi Helga HEre is the link to the thread on Airbnb's FB page -- you can post there -- I would not be able to post for you there but you should be able to --
tinyurl.com/jn7c9of Deborah
Deborah4 days ago
Helga, as usual your insights on the potential problems caused by this Airbnb mis-step are penetrating and wise! I am predicting that when Airbnb realizes what a faux pas it has done, there will be a backpedalling. Thousands of hosts, appalled at the idea that babies might now be forced on them and their homes, will cry out!
helga
helga4 days ago
Thank you Deborah, the link worked, but I had to connect - I learn more of Facebook that I ever wished to ;-)
helga
helga4 days ago
Louise, thank you for bringing that up and fighting against that madness. I saw your discussion on the screenshots Deborah posted.
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C C
C C4 days ago
What if they bring quadruplets!!
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Patricia & Gerard
Patricia & Gerard4 days ago
cc, ha ha, scary thought.
But seriously, just recently, we had a couple who Instant booked our place who casually mentioned they would bring their 3yo along, who was going to share their bed. I politely told them we didn't accept 3rd guests, no matter what age, and they cancelled their reservation (not without some noise). I also had already contacted ABnB about this and they were going to back me up if the guest didn't cancel. Just imagine this had happened now, I wouldn't stand a chance to ask for a cancellation.
Where do you put "property not suitable for children"? In your house rules or the description?
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C C
C C4 days ago
I have some listings set to max 2, but hate hosting couples, as that takes it from one to a herd. I've been thinking of limiting them all to one. I will now, but that still won't keep people from bringing kids without "counting" them, since they'd be free. Then that whole thing is gonna have to be UNRAVELED. Better ask each guest before they get here. The doctors & pilots are gonna think I'm nuts!
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helga
helga4 days ago
A herd !! You exaggerate! Slightly.
C C
C C4 days ago
2 is a herd when you're a hermit.
helga
helga2 days ago
CC, I tried to send you a link to a BBC article about Harper Lee and got the same "user blocked for spam " from att. Either they did not unblock you completely last time or they blocked you again. I'll post the link here, it's just concerning her will, nothing to do with this thread, sorry.
helga
helga2 days ago
gu.com/p/4hc95 - guardian, not bbc
C C
C C2 days ago
Thanks, Helga
Carmen and Jim
Carmen and Jim4 days ago
Well I am going to change my listing, no children under 4 years old, and regardless MAX persons in my studio will be 3 so if they show up I can refuse to let them in. Two can play hardball here.
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helga
helga4 days ago
as far as I understand, they don't count in the number of persons
Louise
Louise4 days ago
You won't know that there's a child under 3 until it shows up and Airbnb probably won't let you kick them out.
C C
C C4 days ago
I told you Airbnb aims to change everything good about itself until it's Flipkey.
helga
helga4 days ago
If anyone finds a formulation for "No free toddler" (one flat) or "No toddler, hell no, not even over my dead body" (the other flat), that does not scare away every women in reproductive age, I'd love if you share it. I tried my best, but did not find it.
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C C
C C4 days ago
So all the babies & toddlers are going to die one by one in our non-babyproofable homes? That's worse than letting someone cross three lanes of traffic turning left--so they can smash into the fourth person!!
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Fiona
Fiona3 days ago
Thanks for raising this. I just posted this to airbnb FB page. "
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Fiona
Fiona3 days ago
This is totally unacceptable and it is not up to Airbnb to dictate to me as a host whether I must allow children under 3 to stay at my accommodation unaccounted for and free of charge.
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C C
C C3 days ago
All these babies come in & the tired doctors, nurses, & pilots I rent to are gonna be howling for a refund!!
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Louise
Louise3 days ago
I've got it, the perfect reply for those awkward moments when someone does one of these 'stealth' bookings which include a litter of mini-vandals.
"Hi Guest
Thanks for your interest and for booking so seamlessly with Instant Book.
I'd love to host you and your lovely, little kiddies. I haven't been around little ones in a long while and I'm really looking forward to it. One thing, if I pass on your details to my parole officer, are you cool with talking to her if she gives you a call? I just want to make sure she understands that I didn't do anything to induce children to stay.
Looking forward to meeting you and the kids."
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Queenie & Ted
Queenie & Ted3 days ago
Needs to be a little bit creepier: "...and I'm really, really, really looking forward to it. "
helga
helga2 days ago
Lol, that solves 2/3 of the cases and for the rest you can use one of the 3 cancellation chances. I feel unsafe with these guests, the parents are either totally daft or estimate their kids worse than criminals. Both are possibilities too scary to host them.
Deborah
Deborahin a few seconds
:-)) Queenie!
Bridget and Mark
Bridget and Mark2 days ago
Have we heard anything yet about this from Airbnb? I am really dreading dealing with this...
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C C
C C2 days ago
Quick--everyone go buy a rooster for the yard!
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Andrew
Andrew2 days ago
Airbnb seems to have removed the thread linked above, but the screenshots are still available at our (uncensored) GlobalHosting forum. In the future, expect that this will be the only place where postings critical of Airbnb will be safe; they've even deleted a few threads from this forum over the years.
For now, I suggest that everyone who's concerned with the new infants policy create a new and separate post on Facebook and Twitter demanding greater clarification, and citing any Airbnb policies or local laws that the new policy may contradict. The more they're bombarded on multiple fronts, the harder it will be to make this a permanent feature.
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Louise
Louise2 days ago
Their corporate response is baffling. To remain mute and not even adopt a policy of 'non-action combined with public validation of concerns' flies in the face of all conventional wisdom about corporate issues management.
I'll add that I'm not at all convinced that the conventional approaches to issues management are effective and, certainly, they're rarely ethically correct. I'm just curious as to why they've gone silent. Are they hoping it'll burn itself out once we've all had our turn and vented our collective spleen? It's odd indeed.
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helga
helga2 days ago
Maybe we should put in every house rule "By booking you confirm that you have indicated every living member of your party. The booking is valid only for announced guests" - or something in that sense. - Airbnb has a strange communication strategy the last year. Head-in-the-sand policy whenever there is a not enthusiastic reaction. Not much image planning lately, but I wonder if they have trouble shooters behind the scenes. I still hope they do.
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Louise
Louise2 days ago
Won't work. I already do that and it's useless. The first para of my House Rules, in both English and Simplified Chinese reads -
"Every person in your group must be included in the guest numbers. Just to clarify; a baby is a person, a toddler is a person, a child is a person. If it's human and has a pulse, it's a person.
We require the names and ages of all guests in your group at the time you book. Any guests not on this list will be refused entry regardless of age."
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C C
C C2 days ago
Everybody keeps saying Airbnb hosts are not like hotels, meaning it in a positive sense. In a negative sense, no, our walls are probably not as thick, not as soundproof. Plus, most hoteliers do not themselves have pets on the premises. Being forced to accept someone noisy or someone my cat will see as prey is not good.
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Susan
Susan2 hours ago
As always with Airbnb, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.... Alex M., Mar 8, 13:52:
Hi Jerry,
It was good to speak with you today.
I did want to amend what I said previously on the phone. When you asked about infants being considered guests, I informed you that all humans were considered to be guests. After our call, I did discover that we are indeed rolling out a change regarding this and moving forward, babies ages 0-2 will need to be marked when booking but will not be included as guests and will not be subject to extra guest fees.
I sincerely apologize for the misinformation.
If you have any further questions about this, just let me know and I would be happy to help.
Best regards,
Alex M.
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helga
helga2 hours ago
I suppose we will see a lot of house rules changing to "no children under 3 are permitted" I'll set mine to none under 8. That may cost me a week of bookings in Summer but will save me a huge load of work to make the place toddler proof in June.
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Fiona
Fiona15 minutes ago
Yes, I will have to do the same too. I've side stepped it by setting my maximum number of guests to 2 and allowing the occasional single parent and child to book in, but I will have to be more up front now.
The end result, of course, will be that parents will find it much harder to find somewhere to stay on Airbnb.