Post by High Priestess on Mar 6, 2016 4:10:15 GMT
I predict a great many hosts will be INFURIATED by this latest move from Airbnb. THey are apparently undercutting hosts' ability to have their own rules for their home, and AIrbnb is telling guest that hosts will not charge for infants age 0 to 2, who also are not to be counted in the total guest count! This bad new move is discussed on Airbnb's FB page in a post there, which is referred to in this New Hosts Forum post:
Fleur, Dan and kids shared March 5 2016
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-212057
Heads up, infants are now free!
Yep in their wisdom they have a new drop down menu where you select ages of guests. And children 0-3 are now free and not considered in the number of guests! Yep so my maximum occupancy is for 4 but now 4 adults could turn up with 4 babies, free of charge and totally going over my maximum occupancy. What the hell are they thinking?
Deborah
Fleur you beat me to it, I was just going to post this on here -- but here I will post the link to the Airbnb Facebook page where they state this.
See here:
tinyurl.com/jn7c9of
or on this Airbnb facebook page:
www.facebook.com/airbnb/?fref=nf
see this post: (click on the little grey "F" in the upper right corner to get taken to the post)
Fleur, Dan and kids
It's mind boggling. I'm tempted to hide my listing until they fix it up. They finally have a drop down menu for age and they totally screw it up.
Deborah
It will be infuriating to many hosts, this step Airbnb is taking. They are basically undermining hosts' own rules, when hosts state that infants or people of any age must be counted in the guest count, and they are also undermining hosts who wish to charge for infants, as this new Airbnb policy makes it appear that infants will all be accepted for free by hosts, regardless of the hosts' own preference on the matter!
Queenie & Ted
Why in the world would they release a host infringement like this without test marketing it? It seems that Airbnb uses it's live platform as a test site. I expect it to vanish as quickly as it appeared.
Michale
So I'm guessing you have to make sure the listings are not family/kid friendly in the amenities section. I had been considering this because of a couple of manipulative families.
Queenie & Ted
But if toddlers are 'free', there is nothing to stop guests from showing up anywhere - family friendly or not- with 'babies' in tow. Hosts know that guests barely read anything. Many people, not just guests, associate 'free' with 'allowed'.
Louise
Not only are they free, but they don't even get counted in the guest numbers.
Actually, this could be a good thing. If little Search and Destroy aren't actually legally present, then I guess I don't have to provide them with towels, soap, milk, hot water, power outlet covers, stair gates, cupboard locks or even oxygen. I can just stash them under the stairs along with all the other guest luggage. And when there are faeces crusted diapers brimming from the waste basket, red marker frescoes on my freshly painted walls and semi-masticated cruskits pounded into the carpet, I'll know it had to be adult culprit. This is going to be so, so much fun at review time.
"Alice and Jim were lovely guests, but they left a few cleaning challenges. They left their soiled diapers in the bedroom waste bin and Jim's little toy cars were strewn all over the floor including in the toilet. Alice appears to have used her lipstick to draw on my walls and there was a very small pair of Thomas the Tank Engine jocks and most of a My Little Pony sucked into the inlet pipe of the pool filter, for which Jim apologised profusely."
Best of all, it means I don't even have to keep an eye on Fluffy. This is a huge relief, because there's nothing more a Doberman loves than a juicy chunk of toddler thigh - especially when it's home delivered.
But bestest, best of all, there's none of that pesky 'rescuing toddlers from a burning building' nonsense that would otherwise be necessary if they were actually present on the inevitable day when the fire sweeps up the gully.
Deepak Rally Chopra
i have j c penny beds that too fire proof , guess , have to take a deposit of 500 gbp if o t0 5 age kids are included and no problem as far as they pay for spoiling the beds , mattresses and other items .
Louise
Sorry, but you're delusional. You won't get a penny of that security deposit if the kids destroy those mattresses, or anything else for that matter.
I just had a little darling deliberately draw with red and green marker all over my walls and on every single panel of my sofa. The parents admitted to it, eventually, but only after I'd handed the matter over to Airbnb to resolve.
My claim was refused by Airbnb because I couldn't produce a receipt for cleaning the sofa ( I didn't even bother claiming for the walls - I just painted over it). As I explained, again, and again, and again, there was no receipt yet as I had to wait for today, Sunday, to have the sofa cleaned as it was the first day without guests for any 48 hour period. No, they couldn't wait, and refused my claim yesterday.
I am never, ever hosting toddlers again and my trust and regard for Airbnb and the protection afforded by their Security Deposit system is utterly destroyed.
Deepak Rally Chopra
we are committed to a life where airbnb gets free properties in 190 countries our homes get destroyed airbnb make their millions and then the security cover they provide us is a ........
Mig
My property is unsuitable for children. If anyone books and does not disclose children, they will not be admitted into my property. No ifs or buts, drop down menu or not. It is not going to happen.
C C
Me neither, Mig. I guess no more Instant Book & a new layer of questions--Are you sure there's no kids? Same goes for dogs. As long as they still pee, they won't be staying at my house.
Deepak Rally Chopra
if i allow kids my neighbours alsation dog is going to create a ruckus like his owner , here i ask my guests to be discreet , try telling that to children
helga
I wanted to comment on Facebook but I do not find the page where you took the screenshots, Deborah. Clearly they did not discuss this question with an European lawyer. It opens the doors to all kind of troubles and not only for hapless hosts:
An example: I do not wish kids in my Paris atelier, as they are dangerous to my artwork but most of all they would be very much in danger themselves. Let's say a family shows up with one kid announced and two toddlers unannounced. If I refuse them, airbnb might side with them now and I'd lose the money, what I can't afford when I already engaged costs for my own trip to free the space. So I might accept them. 5 persons are hell in the small place but parents always believe their kids are calm and don't move. I have two staircases to two lofts. It's impossible to watch three kids (I had such requests already for up to five!!! kids) So lets say one kid falls down and breaks his leg or his neck. Maybe in falling, it holds on in vain to an irreplaceable artwork for good measure. Who will sue whom then? The public attorney will decide to step in too, and everyone will be engaged in 6 years of lawsuits through three instances. In the end, it will probably be airbnb who will have to foot the bill here, as they are in the position of force and imposed the rule whilst the consumers would be justified to trust in consumer protection. The kid will be still dead, my artwork still destroyed and I very much prefer never to see the inside of a holding cell which would be a guarantee here in case of a dead kid.
-----
Second consideration: In many European systems, when you impose your rules on a business partner who is exclusively working with one partner, is disadvantaged by the terms, clearly does not want them,but you force him to comply by the weight of your dominant position, you no longer have a business partner, you have an employee. - Till now, airbnb avoided that trap adroitly, Uber already had that brought against them. I remember a reality show on tv, where the producer had to face all the costs of having had "employees" not candidates. They told the "candidates" what to say, which is quite common in reality" tv shows and they were considered employees then. The producer had to pay holiday pay, health and retirement insurance and lay off indemnities for the evicted candidates.
The bets are open which country or city will bring that argument first. I'd say either Paris or a German town. Or maybe Vienna.
- Deborah, if you still have access to that Facebook discussion, could you copy my argument there please?
Deborah
Helga, see the link above ---
tinyurl.com/jn7c9of
helga
Louise, thank you for bringing that up and fighting against that madness. I saw your discussion on the screenshots Deborah posted.
C C
What if they bring quadruplets!!
Patricia & Gerard
cc, ha ha, scary thought.
But seriously, just recently, we had a couple who Instant booked our place who casually mentioned they would bring their 3yo along, who was going to share their bed. I politely told them we didn't accept 3rd guests, no matter what age, and they cancelled their reservation (not without some noise). I also had already contacted ABnB about this and they were going to back me up if the guest didn't cancel. Just imagine this had happened now, I wouldn't stand a chance to ask for a cancellation.
Where do you put "property not suitable for children"? In your house rules or the description?
C C
I have some listings set to max 2, but hate hosting couples, as that takes it from one to a herd. I've been thinking of limiting them all to one. I will now, but that still won't keep people from bringing kids without "counting" them, since they'd be free. Then that whole thing is gonna have to be UNRAVELED. Better ask each guest before they get here. The doctors & pilots are gonna think I'm nuts!
helga
A herd !! You exaggerate! Slightly.
C C
2 is a herd when you're a hermit.
Carmen and Jim
Well I am going to change my listing, no children under 4 years old, and regardless MAX persons in my studio will be 3 so if they show up I can refuse to let them in. Two can play hardball here.
helga
as far as I understand, they don't count in the number of persons
Louise
You won't know that there's a child under 3 until it shows up and Airbnb probably won't let you kick them out.
C C
I told you Airbnb aims to change everything good about itself until it's Flipkey.
helga
If anyone finds a formulation for "No free toddler" (one flat) or "No toddler, hell no, not even over my dead body" (the other flat), that does not scare away every women in reproductive age, I'd love if you share it. I tried my best, but did not find it.
C C
So all the babies & toddlers are going to die one by one in our non-babyproofable homes? That's worse than letting someone cross three lanes of traffic turning left--so they can smash into the fourth person!!
Fiona
Thanks for raising this. I just posted this to airbnb FB page. "
Fiona
This is totally unacceptable and it is not up to Airbnb to dictate to me as a host whether I must allow children under 3 to stay at my accommodation unaccounted for and free of charge.
C C
All these babies come in & the tired doctors, nurses, & pilots I rent to are gonna be howling for a refund!!
Fleur, Dan and kids shared March 5 2016
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-212057
Heads up, infants are now free!
Yep in their wisdom they have a new drop down menu where you select ages of guests. And children 0-3 are now free and not considered in the number of guests! Yep so my maximum occupancy is for 4 but now 4 adults could turn up with 4 babies, free of charge and totally going over my maximum occupancy. What the hell are they thinking?
Deborah
Fleur you beat me to it, I was just going to post this on here -- but here I will post the link to the Airbnb Facebook page where they state this.
See here:
tinyurl.com/jn7c9of
or on this Airbnb facebook page:
www.facebook.com/airbnb/?fref=nf
see this post: (click on the little grey "F" in the upper right corner to get taken to the post)
Fleur, Dan and kids
It's mind boggling. I'm tempted to hide my listing until they fix it up. They finally have a drop down menu for age and they totally screw it up.
Deborah
It will be infuriating to many hosts, this step Airbnb is taking. They are basically undermining hosts' own rules, when hosts state that infants or people of any age must be counted in the guest count, and they are also undermining hosts who wish to charge for infants, as this new Airbnb policy makes it appear that infants will all be accepted for free by hosts, regardless of the hosts' own preference on the matter!
Queenie & Ted
Why in the world would they release a host infringement like this without test marketing it? It seems that Airbnb uses it's live platform as a test site. I expect it to vanish as quickly as it appeared.
Michale
So I'm guessing you have to make sure the listings are not family/kid friendly in the amenities section. I had been considering this because of a couple of manipulative families.
Queenie & Ted
But if toddlers are 'free', there is nothing to stop guests from showing up anywhere - family friendly or not- with 'babies' in tow. Hosts know that guests barely read anything. Many people, not just guests, associate 'free' with 'allowed'.
Louise
Not only are they free, but they don't even get counted in the guest numbers.
Actually, this could be a good thing. If little Search and Destroy aren't actually legally present, then I guess I don't have to provide them with towels, soap, milk, hot water, power outlet covers, stair gates, cupboard locks or even oxygen. I can just stash them under the stairs along with all the other guest luggage. And when there are faeces crusted diapers brimming from the waste basket, red marker frescoes on my freshly painted walls and semi-masticated cruskits pounded into the carpet, I'll know it had to be adult culprit. This is going to be so, so much fun at review time.
"Alice and Jim were lovely guests, but they left a few cleaning challenges. They left their soiled diapers in the bedroom waste bin and Jim's little toy cars were strewn all over the floor including in the toilet. Alice appears to have used her lipstick to draw on my walls and there was a very small pair of Thomas the Tank Engine jocks and most of a My Little Pony sucked into the inlet pipe of the pool filter, for which Jim apologised profusely."
Best of all, it means I don't even have to keep an eye on Fluffy. This is a huge relief, because there's nothing more a Doberman loves than a juicy chunk of toddler thigh - especially when it's home delivered.
But bestest, best of all, there's none of that pesky 'rescuing toddlers from a burning building' nonsense that would otherwise be necessary if they were actually present on the inevitable day when the fire sweeps up the gully.
Deepak Rally Chopra
i have j c penny beds that too fire proof , guess , have to take a deposit of 500 gbp if o t0 5 age kids are included and no problem as far as they pay for spoiling the beds , mattresses and other items .
Louise
Sorry, but you're delusional. You won't get a penny of that security deposit if the kids destroy those mattresses, or anything else for that matter.
I just had a little darling deliberately draw with red and green marker all over my walls and on every single panel of my sofa. The parents admitted to it, eventually, but only after I'd handed the matter over to Airbnb to resolve.
My claim was refused by Airbnb because I couldn't produce a receipt for cleaning the sofa ( I didn't even bother claiming for the walls - I just painted over it). As I explained, again, and again, and again, there was no receipt yet as I had to wait for today, Sunday, to have the sofa cleaned as it was the first day without guests for any 48 hour period. No, they couldn't wait, and refused my claim yesterday.
I am never, ever hosting toddlers again and my trust and regard for Airbnb and the protection afforded by their Security Deposit system is utterly destroyed.
Deepak Rally Chopra
we are committed to a life where airbnb gets free properties in 190 countries our homes get destroyed airbnb make their millions and then the security cover they provide us is a ........
Mig
My property is unsuitable for children. If anyone books and does not disclose children, they will not be admitted into my property. No ifs or buts, drop down menu or not. It is not going to happen.
C C
Me neither, Mig. I guess no more Instant Book & a new layer of questions--Are you sure there's no kids? Same goes for dogs. As long as they still pee, they won't be staying at my house.
Deepak Rally Chopra
if i allow kids my neighbours alsation dog is going to create a ruckus like his owner , here i ask my guests to be discreet , try telling that to children
helga
I wanted to comment on Facebook but I do not find the page where you took the screenshots, Deborah. Clearly they did not discuss this question with an European lawyer. It opens the doors to all kind of troubles and not only for hapless hosts:
An example: I do not wish kids in my Paris atelier, as they are dangerous to my artwork but most of all they would be very much in danger themselves. Let's say a family shows up with one kid announced and two toddlers unannounced. If I refuse them, airbnb might side with them now and I'd lose the money, what I can't afford when I already engaged costs for my own trip to free the space. So I might accept them. 5 persons are hell in the small place but parents always believe their kids are calm and don't move. I have two staircases to two lofts. It's impossible to watch three kids (I had such requests already for up to five!!! kids) So lets say one kid falls down and breaks his leg or his neck. Maybe in falling, it holds on in vain to an irreplaceable artwork for good measure. Who will sue whom then? The public attorney will decide to step in too, and everyone will be engaged in 6 years of lawsuits through three instances. In the end, it will probably be airbnb who will have to foot the bill here, as they are in the position of force and imposed the rule whilst the consumers would be justified to trust in consumer protection. The kid will be still dead, my artwork still destroyed and I very much prefer never to see the inside of a holding cell which would be a guarantee here in case of a dead kid.
-----
Second consideration: In many European systems, when you impose your rules on a business partner who is exclusively working with one partner, is disadvantaged by the terms, clearly does not want them,but you force him to comply by the weight of your dominant position, you no longer have a business partner, you have an employee. - Till now, airbnb avoided that trap adroitly, Uber already had that brought against them. I remember a reality show on tv, where the producer had to face all the costs of having had "employees" not candidates. They told the "candidates" what to say, which is quite common in reality" tv shows and they were considered employees then. The producer had to pay holiday pay, health and retirement insurance and lay off indemnities for the evicted candidates.
The bets are open which country or city will bring that argument first. I'd say either Paris or a German town. Or maybe Vienna.
- Deborah, if you still have access to that Facebook discussion, could you copy my argument there please?
Deborah
Helga, see the link above ---
tinyurl.com/jn7c9of
helga
Louise, thank you for bringing that up and fighting against that madness. I saw your discussion on the screenshots Deborah posted.
C C
What if they bring quadruplets!!
Patricia & Gerard
cc, ha ha, scary thought.
But seriously, just recently, we had a couple who Instant booked our place who casually mentioned they would bring their 3yo along, who was going to share their bed. I politely told them we didn't accept 3rd guests, no matter what age, and they cancelled their reservation (not without some noise). I also had already contacted ABnB about this and they were going to back me up if the guest didn't cancel. Just imagine this had happened now, I wouldn't stand a chance to ask for a cancellation.
Where do you put "property not suitable for children"? In your house rules or the description?
C C
I have some listings set to max 2, but hate hosting couples, as that takes it from one to a herd. I've been thinking of limiting them all to one. I will now, but that still won't keep people from bringing kids without "counting" them, since they'd be free. Then that whole thing is gonna have to be UNRAVELED. Better ask each guest before they get here. The doctors & pilots are gonna think I'm nuts!
helga
A herd !! You exaggerate! Slightly.
C C
2 is a herd when you're a hermit.
Carmen and Jim
Well I am going to change my listing, no children under 4 years old, and regardless MAX persons in my studio will be 3 so if they show up I can refuse to let them in. Two can play hardball here.
helga
as far as I understand, they don't count in the number of persons
Louise
You won't know that there's a child under 3 until it shows up and Airbnb probably won't let you kick them out.
C C
I told you Airbnb aims to change everything good about itself until it's Flipkey.
helga
If anyone finds a formulation for "No free toddler" (one flat) or "No toddler, hell no, not even over my dead body" (the other flat), that does not scare away every women in reproductive age, I'd love if you share it. I tried my best, but did not find it.
C C
So all the babies & toddlers are going to die one by one in our non-babyproofable homes? That's worse than letting someone cross three lanes of traffic turning left--so they can smash into the fourth person!!
Fiona
Thanks for raising this. I just posted this to airbnb FB page. "
Fiona
This is totally unacceptable and it is not up to Airbnb to dictate to me as a host whether I must allow children under 3 to stay at my accommodation unaccounted for and free of charge.
C C
All these babies come in & the tired doctors, nurses, & pilots I rent to are gonna be howling for a refund!!