Post by deborah on Jan 30, 2016 17:28:48 GMT
See this post by Raymond and Elaine:
community.airbnb.com/t5/General-Hosting/This-is-not-a-Community-Center-it-is-one-big-Help-Line-answered/td-p/23077
Raymond and Elaine
This is not A Community Center, it is one big Help Line answered by hosts.
This is not a Community Center, it is one big Help Line answered by hosts. In less than a month our host-run forums will be closed. I have been sending people here . But it's a mess. The living room, Tips & Tricks, Airbnb Open 2015 etc etc are all the same. There is no community just hosts that pop in, ask a question (often already posed many times before) which is answered by the same dedicated small group, then they pop out. The FAQ page is still not being consulted and the search is not working.No stories, no friendships, no going off topic and having a laugh and joke, just questions and very few 'thank-yous'.
Dave & Deb
@raymond & Elaine,
You hit the nail on the head! I wish I could give 200 thumbs up for this post. There are so many times I see hosts posting that Airbnb could not help them and were told to go seek their answer out on the Community Center. So yes, it is more of a "Help Line answered by hosts". And I also agree that many of us including you, Clare, Deborah, and the many other hosts who help out do not even get a "thank you" when a hosts problem is solved for the 20th time for the same question that people could have just searched in the "Search the Community" box above.
I do wish they would keep the Groups open and if they want to keep the Community Center open, maybe rename it to the Airbnb Help Center. I am sure once it is opened up to guests, it will be more of a "Help Line" and a sounding board to complaints about Airbnb. It will be interesting what happens in the months to come.
Thanks for posting this @raymond & Elaine@!
If a host has helped you today in the Community Center, feel free to thank them, give them a thumbs up and/or select "Mark as Most Helpful" to the left of the thumbs up.
Monica
Yes, I miss the old "community forum". But at the same time I realized that there is a need for a place for hosts to ask questions. Airbnb is not host-friendly. I have myself experienced the lack of knowledge that airbnb employees have, after waiting days at time for a reply to a problem. We small group of hosts that answer questions are doing airbnb's work for them - aren't they lucky that they have to hire less people? I am now concentrating in flipkey because I am impressed with their customer service for hosts as well as guests. In fact, my new business cards will not have the airbnb link on them anymore. Airbnb needs to change or the balloon will bust.
Olivier François
And a special price for you dave & Deb for writing so usefull guidelines !
Olivier François
Kelly
Again, I think Airbnb did a very clever job - with this 'Community', Airbnb gets to help out new hosts without them doing anywork.
Ed & Hugh
I have to agree. As much of a mess as the old groups were, there was a strong sense of community. Now, people have scattered to 3rd party forum sites, Facebook, etc. The old groups are winding down, and the new "community" is not really working like it should. We've lost our community home.
Kelly
dave & Deb
Actually, the guides and help you are giving should be paid by Airbnb!
Dave & Deb
Thank you kelly,
I actually enjoy making the guides and helping others. I am running out of ideas for the guides but maybe people can suggest some.
Dave
If a host has helped you today in the Community Center, feel free to thank them, give them a thumbs up and/or select "Mark as Most Helpful" to the left of the thumbs up.
Olivier François
I use to participate in spanish and french CC and have been very crítical against CC but I know now why it's very difficult for them to help and to answer. Site is changing constantly. The answer you gave 1 week ago is no longer true! Different version of site or app are available at the same time. People even don't see what you do on your laptop, some amenities are available for someone and not for others. It's just crazy!
Olivier François
Andrew
Well Airbnb like to promote itself as a touchy feely share economy platform (avoid the work company as it might imply profits or money).
Fact is they are a 'for profit' company and they're happy to have as many naive hosts as possible peddle the share economy matra on their behalf.
I do wonder how long Airbnb or Uber can exist on % per booking platform. The market will ultimately see through this and flat fee alternatives will emerge. They are after all just listing portals backed by a billing system.
Robyn
@raymond & Elaine....Yes, have to agree with you to a certain extent but, on the other hand, it is doing what it is intended to do...It is giving a lot of useful information to....the Airbnb community...and surely that is good!! I stumbled across the forum about 6 weeks ago and thanks to some of that 'dedicated band' have received a lot of really useful advice. Advice I would not have been able to get from anywhere else....it's called, drawing on experience!
In addition, where possible, I do try to introduce and element of humour into my posts, and I do like to paint a 'picture', and I would like to think other contributors would do the same. We all have golden moments in this game that we will always remember, and I do agree with you that it would be nice to see more 'personal character' come over rather than the quick 'hit and run' one liners.
Thanks for your post Raymond & Elaine, perhaps you can inject that bit of 'colour' into the site that you feel it lacks....cheers.....Rob
Till & Jutta
Some problem here in our German-speaking "community"; just a different language.
Hier helfen wir uns alle gegenseitig. Stelle dich bitte kurz vor, verwende die Suchfunktion, und gib uns eine Rückmeldung.
Louise
No, the dispensing of free advice by experienced hosts is not good, not good at all. Because we experienced hosts do so much of the hard work associated with onboarding new hosts, the true cost of each new host acquisition isn't being borne by Airbnb. Therefore there is no disincentive for Airbnb to continue to indiscriminately recruit new hosts even though this is to the detriment of experienced hosts and, ultimately, to the Airbnb brand.
If you really want to help us hosts and in the longer term preserve the integrity of the Airbnb brand, stop volunteering your own time and expertise. There's nothing in it for experienced hosts and a lot to lose.
Paul
Actually, the largest flat fee alternative, HomeAway/VRBO, is rolling out traveller fees in February. The subscriber community over there is in an uproar!
Dave & Deb
Hmm, will they decrease the hosting fee?
If a host has helped you today in the Community Center, feel free to thank them, give them a thumbs up and/or select "Mark as Most Helpful" to the left of the thumbs up.
Olivier François
Yes, just saw an article which explain "hosts that have chosen to list on HomeAway sites for free and pay 10 percent commissions per booking would see those commissions lowered" said HomeAway CEO Brian Sharples.
Robyn
louise...You know, I looked at that for a while and re-read it, and Louise....you are absolutely right! All we are doing is cutting our own throats. Airbnb must love it, they have this totally unpaid publicity/customer support section doing their work for them!!
See, I just don't naturally think like that, I am not wired that way! You know, I do 4 days a week of volunteer work, I like to give back to the community. I am a gregarious person who loves meeting people and I guess that makes me a massive target for Airbnb and that ilk. I am just what they want because I love people and I will go out of my way to help...which is one of the main reasons I have been so active on this forum over the past month.....I just want to help!
It also has had a sobering effect on me in so much as I am seeing so many issues I would never of known about....and many of them have shown me a dark side of what a hosting site can be. After being on this forum I am no longer that innocent little 'vegemite' waving that Airbnb banner....don't get me wrong, Airbnb have been very good to me, but I have seen a lot of peoples distress, and I just want to help!!!
Thanks for making me wake up to myself Louise....we do all need a reality check at times....cheers....Rob
Ernest
Collossal failure by Airbnb. What a shame they are so out of touch with the amazing host community that they claim to value.
Louise
"Giving back" should be an essential part of everyone's daily lives, and those that do are showing that they're enviably self-actualised humans who sit right at the top of Maslow's pyramid. However, this is like being asked to 'give back' to Gina Rinehart. No. No. No.
Robin
louise We are getting off the thread here Louise but, four weeks ago we were burgled....well more particularly my car in the carport was burgled. Like a fool I had inadvertantly left my wallet in the car...not in view but, it was in there! Next morning I cancelled all the cards and went through the replacement process, and I was hoping that when they discovered there was nothing to be had they would just take the cash and throw it away and there would be a possibility of me getting it back....didn't happen!!
The saddest part about that whole exercise, if I came across one of those 'peckerheads' in the street in trouble, I would help them out! And yet it's cool for them to come and steal from me...
I am too trusting but, I am old....and you can't teach an old dog new tricks......That's why I have got straight up 5 star reviews! It does not matter if it's Bill the beggar or Gina Rinehardt, I will always want to help. I am never going to change, and that comes through in my hosting!....Cheers....Rob
Louise
So if you worked for Gina Rinehart and she asked you to stay back week after week to do a couple of hours overtime each day for no pay, you'd do it? Really? Why?
Robin
louise Louise there is a huge gap between helping people and being taken advantage of...and I am somewhat surprised you don't seem to appreciate the difference. I find your outlook very cynical, even almost bitter, but then again, I am a glass half full person rather than of the glass half empty variety!
I can't tell you how much joy I get delivering a meal to someone who will not see another human face in any given 24 hour period...that Louise is helping. If someone ahead of me is $2 short at the checkout...it goes on my bill. That Louise is helping!
But I did think you raised a very good point about midlessly offering expertise which will ultimately be to our dettriment...and you are obviously a good host, you have the runs on the board....cheers....Rob
Olivier François
robin, after dedicating many time to comunity I agree with louise. And it's has nothing to deal with helping people. We are paying airbnb and doing their job. We are learning people, who never imagine this is business, to become our competitors (for the best ones) or to create guests insatisfaction against airbnb (for the worse ones). In each case we loose. Comunity means reciprocity, comunication, trust, if you find it in helping is a joy, if not it's just taking advantage of kindness.
Robin
olivier François You are right Olivier and I did aknowledge that about Louise in her posts and I thanked her for making me aware of what I was doing, but Olivier.....you are doing exactly the same thing...in many of your posts you are providing information. It's because we are caring sharing people we do that Olivier, and you are no different from me, you help, because that's the sort of person you are.
I dare say Louise helps people too, it was just the calculating insensitive way she dismissed it that I felt uncomfortable about!! Cheers....Rob
"Olivier , vous avez raison et j'aknowledge propos de Louise dans les messages et je la remercie de me faire au courant de ce que je faisais , mais Olivier ..... vous faire exactement la même chose ... dans de nombreux messages , vous fournissez des informations . Il est parce que nous prenons soin des gens que nous faisons ce que Olivier , et vous ne sont pas différents de moi , vous contribuez de vous-même , parce que ce genre de personne vous êtes .
J'ose dire Louise aide les gens aussi. Il a été le calcul cynique utilisé que je me sentais mal à l'aise" !! Cheers....Rob
Kelly
Communicating with other hosts were great when Airbnb was listening to hosts. When we form a bigger voice, it was easier to be heard - that was what we thought.
Airbnb is saying 'community' - this is an endless loosing game on the hosts' side. Yes, we earn money - but this being 'community', basically guests can expect ANYTHING. And since we are getting paid, we are supposed to cope with it - if the guests get upset, we get penalized, if we don't want to upset them, we need to give what they want which is getting penalized anyway.
They don't educate the guests at all - it is all on hosts responsibility. It is really hard to feel 'community' when Hosts are the only one being pushed to try harder, better, somehow.
y
Olivier François
robin, ok but there is a limit, and boundary's being crossed. I spend so much time dealing with ABB issues just to manage my listings. Don't have anymore time to help on CC. I decided stop even consulting untill march and then will see how things goes on.
Olivier François
Louise
robin, I do 'appreciate the difference', of course I do.
My point is this; helping new hosts, as you and many of us (including myself) do, creates a much bigger problem for hosts than it solves. At its most fundamental level, by fostering the hosting aspirations of somewhat lazy and ill-prepared new entrants, it undermines the evolution of a robust, competitive market between peers that would otherwise lead to shift towards excellence in listing quality that in turn would enhance the integrity and value of the Airbnb brand.
Hosts who volunteer their expertise to other hosts in the community absorb much of the cost associated with both the day-to-day support of incumbent hosts and, more pertinently, the onboarding of new hosts. Airbnb is in an enviable position in that an unusually high proportion of its customers (ie hosts) are altruistically inclined, with the result that the altruistic nature of many hosts insulates Airbnb from the true cost of new host acquisition. The recognition (and to some extent exploitation) of this quality by Airbnb presumably also influences many of their operational and even strategic corporate decisions. Airbnb knows it can to a certain extent rely on the kindness of strangers and therefore there is little incentive for Airbnb to commit resources to raising the quality of the educational content on the website and/or improving the quality of CX.
I don't think any of us are too thrilled by the prospect of a reduction in demand for our own properties brought about by a seemingly endless supply of new listings flooding the market; properties that are often managed by hosts who apparently can't be bothered doing even the most cursory research before they bring their listing to the platform. Every day I see more and more listings popping up in search that are new to Airbnb and look like portals to hell. Is that in anyone's interests?
Another concern is the explicit directive given to those searching for information via the Airbnb 'Help' function to first consult the Community Centre. A reasonable person would therefore assume that the information conveyed by volunteers who contribute to these boards is somehow vetted by Airbnb and that it can be trusted and is accurate, but sometimes this is not the case. What happens when those who act on information gleaned from posting their query on the CC are subsequently damaged by misinformation. Will they expect and seek some form of redress from Airbnb? For this reason alone I think that the use of the CC as a de facto 'Help Desk' opens up an unacceptable conduit for reputational risk to Airbnb. Surely, if they ever do go to IPO, this is an area which would have to raise some concerns with the governance committee.
Robin
louise Hey, can't argue with a thing you have said there....everything you say is downright good commonsense. Your first post on this thread shook me a little but, did make me realise you are 100% right....Why give away that information that will simply rob your basket of goodies!
But the thing I was trying to get across since then, we are all different Louise, we all have a different style. Here is the final paragraph of a post I did an hour or so ago...
"When we had a cuppa and talked on her last afternoon she started to cry and my wife gave her a big hug! She gave me a ring when she got back home to country NSW and she said she didn't want a protracted farewell so she left before we woke and she said she cried for some time after leaving. You can see what she had to say on our last review. Rita, this is what happens, you reach out to people and they will respond!...And that is no doubt exactly what you have done.
There are many hosts who regard this simply as a business venture, a clinical money making jaunt on the side. They are not interested in the human side of hosting and have no desire to get into it! These people are the ultimate loosers because they don't get to see that lovely side of humanity that we see.....Keep it up Rita, you, and I, are what hosting is all about!! Cheers....Rob"
So Louise, yeah I am going to 'pull my head' in regarding the offering of advice to hosts but, I am not going to change the human being that I am....Cheers....Rob
Olivier François
louise, I totally agree with you in all points. And want to tell you about the strange mail airbnb CS send me yesterday. Airbnb don't asked me to search on CC but that I will be contacted by hosts comunity experts selected by airbnb to answer to hosts and guests... I let you a copy of original mail 'Pour accélérer le traitement de votre question, vous allez peut-être recevoir une réponse d'un de nos experts de la communauté. Les experts de la communauté regroupent nos membres les plus expérimentés, spécialement choisis pour apporter des réponses aux questions des hôtes et voyageurs sur Airbnb.' If selected hosts are now supposed to make the online help it would insulates more Airbnb from reality.
Cheers
Olivier François
y
Robin
olivier François Can I run something past you Olivier?....This a part of another post I did earlier today. It is related to the discontinuation of celluIar notifications which we have both been actively involved in. I would appreciate your thoughts on this.
"It's extremely disappointing we had to find out the way we did.....in bits and pieces by other users on the CC! Even the CC moderators have been kept in the dark. Phone-in help desk DO know all about it, but for some reason or other they are tight lipped, as though they have been instructed to keep it under wraps.
The only logical reason I can see for this silence is, the impact of this decision will be spread out over a few weeks, and even months as hosts dicover they are not getting messages! Had Airbnb made a general statement to the hosting community there would have been such an uproar that their customer support would have had no way of coping with it and the platform would have ground to a standstill!!! By spreading out the impact they have more hope of coping with what will be a major crisis within the company!
For the best part of two weeks I was hopefull that it was a concerted hacking attack on Airbnb, but the silence has gone on for so long that I have ruled that out. David, it's a numbers game, the numbers have been crunched and the decision has been made.....bye, bye cellular!!! Cheers....Rob"
What are your thoughts on this Olivier and do you think that you are possibly being groomed away from the forum to the moderating roll with this email that you have received??? Cheers....Rob
Oliver Francois
robin,
about Notification issue, I made an Alert post on both french and spanish CC so most people are informed and now I live with it. I know Airbnb will ever try to 'minimize' issues, we both know many people were affected but what % of all airbnb hosts does it represent? Perhaps it's just 1%.
We have to use the comunity to inform hosts about possible issues which may affect them and to be very watchful about. As Airbnb don't give us any information about changes, our responsability as making part of the comunity is to inform and share.
Accepting Airbnb general policy I knew in which sauce I was going to be eaten (french expression), no surprise for me. If they groom me away from the forum for acting like that, I was conscious and that's all.
Olivier François
Trevor
louise
You make some very good points. I understand why you would be cynical about the community forum working against the hosts long term interests. After all, why help a competitor? However you should not overlook the value that you gain from helping other hosts (to an extent).
We all have questions about hosting especially at the beginning. And many of us reached out to the "community" for these answers and found them. I don't think we can lay blame on Airbnb for leveraging the community to assist in the onboarding process when we have all benefited from this community.
We are all generating revenue as a direct result of the Airbnb brand. And many of us have contributed to improving this brand by lending our advice to other hosts. There will be a point (If it hasn't happened already) when free market economics will play a role, and your local market may see a slowdown due to over-saturation. Withholding advice from other hosts will not stop or delay this, it will simply mean more hosts offering sub-standard service.
For example: If the customer demand is there, and your neighbor host with a similar listing does not have enough towels, you will both still get a booking, however the overall quality of the brand (Airbnb) will suffer. Conversely if the demand is not there, and your neighbor host with a similar listing does not have enough towels, the fact that you are a veteran host (reflected in the number of great reviews) gives you a clear advantage and always will give you an edge over the newbie. Also your knowledge gives you many other advantages over the new hosts who are seeking advice.
One final example here in NY where the community forum helps us all more than hurts us. One of the most pressing issues we all have in NY is compliance. It is an issue that I have followed from day one as I was looking to monetize my hosting legally. I sought out the advice of hosts with similar experience, and lent out advice to hosts looking to comply. If my neighbor host with a similar listing gets shut down not only is the Airbnb brand lessened in the eyes of both my potential customers and the city who is looking to brand Airbnb hosts as "illegal hotels". Conversely as a seasoned hosts lending advice to new hosts, if I paint an accurate picture of what it takes to comply as a professional hosts I may actually find a partner who will "pay it back" or "pay it forward" or to a newbie who does not see this as a path he would like to pursue. (I actually decided myself after talking to other hosts and doing research that I would not pursue being a professional host myself). Which actually frees up the competition for my neighbor with loftier hosting aspirations.
I guess my point is, in the end "Free market economics" will play a much larger role than giving a newbie advice about how many towels to lay on the bed.
Thanks for reading
Trevor
Louise
@trevor I'm certainly not against helping people and continue to do it in other forums, just not this one.
My point is not that we should stop helping people, it's about no longer engaging in behaviours that stymie the development of a market in which the cost and associated risk assumed by all stakeholders is hindered by a disfunctional social contract.
A market in which free riders are cossetted is not a healthy, competitive, evolving market. In this case there are two classes of stakeholder, each of which to some extent free ride; (A) Airbnb - by 'outsourcing' much of its CX function to a labour class with no expectation of compensation who are engaged under a purely social contract, and (B) new hosts - for whom the barrier to entry is lowered by experienced hosts who allow them to access the incumbent hosts' IP at no costs
This isn't healthy on such a broad scale and, as I mentioned in a previous post, raises governance issues which should be of concern. Yes, there will always be, and there's probably a place for, peer-to-peer forums to exchange IP on an altruistic basis. However, when a stakeholder relies on a peer-to-peer forum to signficantly augment a universally acknowledged poorly performing CX function and also controls the content of posts, it becomes an entirely different issue. Therefore, I think it's important that we don't make the mistake of applying the same values-based argument, that we would use to justify participation on other, authentic, peer-to-peer forums, to our participation on this forum.
Milu
louise you've presented some compelling information and I appreciate the time that you're taking to give us your very informed opinion. The scales of naivete are falling off, everything you're saying makes complete sense.
I'm off to reddit/r/airbnb now
Sara
E@Robin couldn't have written it better myself I agree with you I have received so much help on here and tried to give back there are many small complicated issues only hosts know and not helping or sharing is not nice
having said that I wouldn't help all those people who post ads saying just opening any advice without reading any FQs
Robin
sara .....Sara, in a way I wish I hadn't come across this CC forum. I am seeing all the bad side of hosting. I guess it's all very well for me, in my area there is very little competition and I can possibly be a bit flippant about advice. Now that it has been pointed out to me I can see that what Louise and other have to say is correct, it's just that, in my life, I am a helper, always have been and it just goes against my grain to always take and not put back....
I absolutely love what Airbnb has done for me and my life has changed for the better! I am not just making a buck on the side, I am reaching out to humanity....read my reviews...I am not just a letting agent.....I am a 'Host'!! cheers....Rob
Trevor
Hi louise I respectfully disagree.
1) There is more harm done to the development of the Airbnb brand (if that is your concern) and this market, that comes as a result of misinformed hosts providing subpar service, than is done by informed hosts helping misinformed hosts.
2) The net gain of reducing Airbnb CX costs, is offset by the net gain of the hosts (old and new) who benefit from the community forums. ( I think it is a bit selfish for a host to reap the benefits of this free advice when they are new, and then shut the door behind them for other hosts who look to benefit from the same forums.)
3) I completely disagree about the effect our participation has on the competititve environment. I think that the determining factor in how well each host's perform, has far more to do with that host's level of service, and knowledge of their local market. In addition withholding information on this forum does nothing to dissuade a host from becoming a competitor, it only injures your market. If you are good at hosting, you can do more good by paying attention to price fluctuations, and good reviews, than witholding advice.
Lets use my local subset as an example... I host in Williamsburg NY, it is safe to say that the hosts here in Williamsburg are very savvy hosts, (I think we are the number one neighborhood destination on Airbnb) that level of service enhances the Williamsburg Airbnb brand. Another host may have a listing in Harlem (not sure just using as an example), where those hosts may not provide the same level of service or amenities as the hosts in Williamsburg. As a result the Harlem brand may not be as valuable as the Williamsburg brand. Less tourists, less revenue to be shared by the same number of "less informed" hosts.
Finally as it pertains to governance, I can only say that Airbnb seems to be taking a very active role in this regard. I have been to several community hall meetings and spoken to hosts and Airbnb reps alike. I meet with my local rep on a regular basis one on one. If what we seek is information from Airbnb, it is there. Just find out who your local rep is and invite them out for a drink.
I think the sentiment that is expressed here is a natural cycle of compitition. Those who got in first tend to want to keep all the marbles to themselves. The same thing is happening over at the UBER boards. Don't ask me why I know that. I would recommend (This is for all hosts) regardless of if you agree with me or not to trust your gut and then do some research.
Thanks for reading
Trevor
Trevor
Hi olivier François
Those are legitamate issues. I am not familiar with the international Airbnb community, and it sounds like it is much tougher to build a community abroad than it is here.
I can say this about this new forum. The old forum I only corresponded with my local community. This is the first time I am corresponding with the global community, and for me that is interesting. However as you describe it, this global interaction may be a bigger benefit for you than it is for me.
We will see.
Good luck to you.
Trevor
Till & Jutta
olivier François You forgot to mention the German-speaking CC... Active, but still missing the community feeling we had in the old groups.
Hier helfen wir uns alle gegenseitig. Stelle dich bitte kurz vor, verwende die Suchfunktion, und gib uns eine Rückmeldung.
Olivier François
So Sorry @till & Jutta, I never manage to learn German but that is no excuse ;-).
I agree with you and hope this feeling will hatch with spring at the end of old groups.
Olivier François
Olivier François
@trevor, I hope this will be a bigger benefit for all airbnb hosts ;-)
Olivier François
Trevor
olivier François
Agreed.
Till & Jutta
olivier François An Airbnb guest once told me, that the live is too short to learn German. ;-)
Hier helfen wir uns alle gegenseitig. Stelle dich bitte kurz vor, verwende die Suchfunktion, und gib uns eine Rückmeldung.
Olivier François
@till & Jutta,
personally I think everybody have some previous afinity with some other languages, but not alls... For example for me speaking spanish is as natural as speaking french since the first time (my grandgrandmother from south-west part of France always talked me in Occitan which is quite like catalán when I was a child). After all latin languages I speak are just others versions (español, gallego, portugués, catalán). Learning English have been more difficult and I thanks Airbnb because I never spoke much english since I am hosting!
So now need to get more german guests to be obliged to learn german :-)
Olivier François
Deborah
There are a few other issues related to this question of experienced hosts helping other hosts, which I have not yet seen discussed here.
(1) The more experienced you are as a host, and particularly the more experience you have helping other hosts, the less interest you will likely have in answering the same very basic hosting questions over and over and over and over. As well, you will likely be less interested in being used as a "tool" , and more interested in being known/viewed as a person with a unique perspective and wisdom. I speak from the experience of having been answering host queries for over 2 years as one of the moderators of New Hosts Forum, this group on the "old" Airbnb groups: www.airbnb.com/groups/41
And @trevor you may not be aware, (from your post about this being the first time you're experiencing a worldwide host community it sounds like you aren't )-- there actually HAS been a worldwide host community on the old Airbnb groups for the last 2 years. New Hosts Forum was one of the primary gathering places of this host community, along with Anecdotes and Stories ( www.airbnb.com/groups/429) and Hosting 911 (https://www.airbnb.com/groups/303 ) and Airbnb Products and Updates (https://www.airbnb.com/groups/39 ) as well as a few others.
(2) It is not the case that all new hosts are asking questions which we all had at some point and got help with. I would bet that the most successful hosts got started without actually needing any help from other hosts -- they were smart enough to find their way to the resources or info that answered their questions, or to find the Airbnb Customer service phone number. Many of us started hosting way before there even were host groups, so we HAD to figure things out ourselves. So in a sense, the hosts who are here asking VERY basic questions (as opposed to not so basic questions!) which many of us did not need help with when we started, are demonstrating that they dont' have the mettle that many of us had when we started, are not as resourceful, perhaps not as intelligent or perhaps not as willing to put in the effort to be a host. (I don't actually see too many "very" basic questions on this forum -- most of the questions are intelligent, but a good many of them are boring -- that;s another issue....) THere is a blog on this issue of hosts starting up hosting without being prepared to do so...it's here: Don't be An Airbnb Baby
(3) On the old Airbnb groups (examples given above) a culture developed, that if hosts asked questions which were far too basic, questions that demonstrated that they had not made a basic effort to do the work to become hosts, that is the feedback they would get from the host community. For instance if a host asks, "Does the guest pay me when they arrive at my house?" This suggests the host is NOT ready to start hosting, if they don't even know how Airbnb works. Such and similar questions would likely get the response, from this host community, , "please do some work and read the FAQs, explore the Airbnb site, read posts on this forum, before you list your space, because your question suggest you may not yet be ready to host." That was the culture on these old groups. What the culture on these new groups is going to be, is yet to be seen.
(4) Without regard to the Airbnb brand or the more complex issues louise has raised, I think it's not good for hosts to start up a business without being willing to put in a reasonable effort to learn how to run that business. It's not responsible. I am wanting to motivate hosts to take on the responsibilities that come with hosting, among which, is to seek to find answers to some very basic questions of how to use the AIrbnb site.
(5) Hosts like myself who have answered many hundreds of host questions over the last 2+ years on the worldwide host forums, tend to find that we aren't as interested in being treated as tools where you put in a coin and we spit out information. We want to be consulted because we have wisdom to share, something which holistically engages the whole of us, rather than being treated as encyclopedias who just spit out the same info over and over. What I have noticed on this community center, which @raymond & Elaine is sensing too (Elaine is one of the "regulars" of the old host community groups) is that many of the questions are boring. They are brief and wholly focused on information. "Gimme the info. Then I go." (WHere's the "community" in that? Is I think part of @raymond & Elaine's question and criticism) On the old groups, questions would often be presented with more "story" involved -- the whole presentation and the subsequent discussion was more personal. I tend to think this is in part a result of the alienating layout and offputting visual aspect of this Community Center, with its emotionally flat blue graphic of an empty city without any people in it, at the top of this page. OThers have commented they feel bored by this community center. So I reflect to myself, does a boring group layout, boring visuals, boring rectangles in a white on white space page, lead to more boring posts? It strikes me as possible....
(6) I think one of the points of @raymond & Elaine 's post is to stir us to reflection on just what are the elements that go to creating community. I personally dont think community is created by a Yahoo Answers type format where people drop in to post a question, grab the information they get, and then leave again. Community is created by sharing stories, by getting to know people, and this is done better when people don't only post one sentence questions and then grab-info-n-go, but tell a story, present a context, and take time to engage in a dialogue and appreciate the wisdom and character of those hosts who respond to them and dialogue with them. (I also don't think the "levels" numbers help at all -- nor do I believe the "most helpful" vote is helpful for building community -- these I believe are detrimental to rather than supportive of community --level indicators and "best answer" votes are Yahoo Answers features....)
(7) IT's also the case that many of the questions asked here, are really not questions for other hosts, but are more appropriately questions for AIrbnb customer service. Technical questions, questions on how to use the site, are best answered by AIrbnb. The kinds of questions that Airbnb customer service CANNOT answer, or answer well, are those which have to do with issues of judgement, or style, and that is where experienced hosts excel, and it's also where more of our interests lie. I find that with many experienced hosts, they are far less interested in answering questions from hosts about how to cancel a booking or how to call Airbnb, but more interested in "story" or "context" questions ----- what to do about a guest who seems to be carrying on an affair in their home, or who thinks that "no smoking" only refers to tobacco and who is vaping the place to smithereens, or who relates a tale of the spiky guest whose stiletto heels have jabbed a dozen holes in their hardwood floor.
(8) Answering boring questions encourages more of the same. I propose that we are in the midst of creating this community center by what we post here . IF hosts post dozens of boring Yahoo ANswers questions and other hosts diligently and tediously answer them all and look to see what points and "most helpful" scores they have racked up, then we are creating a "community center" where boring questions are encouraged and which looks like Yahoo Answers. ANd which those in search of community may flee, because to them it can appear, (as one host described it to me ) "mind-numbingly dull." By contrast, if we are sharing things that are interesting, engaging, colorful, etc, then we will be creating something else, something that IMHO would be more appealing. I just hope the dull layout and visual format of this forum doesn't too heavily mitigate against such efforts to create community.
community.airbnb.com/t5/General-Hosting/This-is-not-a-Community-Center-it-is-one-big-Help-Line-answered/td-p/23077
Raymond and Elaine
This is not A Community Center, it is one big Help Line answered by hosts.
This is not a Community Center, it is one big Help Line answered by hosts. In less than a month our host-run forums will be closed. I have been sending people here . But it's a mess. The living room, Tips & Tricks, Airbnb Open 2015 etc etc are all the same. There is no community just hosts that pop in, ask a question (often already posed many times before) which is answered by the same dedicated small group, then they pop out. The FAQ page is still not being consulted and the search is not working.No stories, no friendships, no going off topic and having a laugh and joke, just questions and very few 'thank-yous'.
Dave & Deb
@raymond & Elaine,
You hit the nail on the head! I wish I could give 200 thumbs up for this post. There are so many times I see hosts posting that Airbnb could not help them and were told to go seek their answer out on the Community Center. So yes, it is more of a "Help Line answered by hosts". And I also agree that many of us including you, Clare, Deborah, and the many other hosts who help out do not even get a "thank you" when a hosts problem is solved for the 20th time for the same question that people could have just searched in the "Search the Community" box above.
I do wish they would keep the Groups open and if they want to keep the Community Center open, maybe rename it to the Airbnb Help Center. I am sure once it is opened up to guests, it will be more of a "Help Line" and a sounding board to complaints about Airbnb. It will be interesting what happens in the months to come.
Thanks for posting this @raymond & Elaine@!
If a host has helped you today in the Community Center, feel free to thank them, give them a thumbs up and/or select "Mark as Most Helpful" to the left of the thumbs up.
Monica
Yes, I miss the old "community forum". But at the same time I realized that there is a need for a place for hosts to ask questions. Airbnb is not host-friendly. I have myself experienced the lack of knowledge that airbnb employees have, after waiting days at time for a reply to a problem. We small group of hosts that answer questions are doing airbnb's work for them - aren't they lucky that they have to hire less people? I am now concentrating in flipkey because I am impressed with their customer service for hosts as well as guests. In fact, my new business cards will not have the airbnb link on them anymore. Airbnb needs to change or the balloon will bust.
Olivier François
And a special price for you dave & Deb for writing so usefull guidelines !
Olivier François
Kelly
Again, I think Airbnb did a very clever job - with this 'Community', Airbnb gets to help out new hosts without them doing anywork.
Ed & Hugh
I have to agree. As much of a mess as the old groups were, there was a strong sense of community. Now, people have scattered to 3rd party forum sites, Facebook, etc. The old groups are winding down, and the new "community" is not really working like it should. We've lost our community home.
Kelly
dave & Deb
Actually, the guides and help you are giving should be paid by Airbnb!
Dave & Deb
Thank you kelly,
I actually enjoy making the guides and helping others. I am running out of ideas for the guides but maybe people can suggest some.
Dave
If a host has helped you today in the Community Center, feel free to thank them, give them a thumbs up and/or select "Mark as Most Helpful" to the left of the thumbs up.
Olivier François
I use to participate in spanish and french CC and have been very crítical against CC but I know now why it's very difficult for them to help and to answer. Site is changing constantly. The answer you gave 1 week ago is no longer true! Different version of site or app are available at the same time. People even don't see what you do on your laptop, some amenities are available for someone and not for others. It's just crazy!
Olivier François
Andrew
Well Airbnb like to promote itself as a touchy feely share economy platform (avoid the work company as it might imply profits or money).
Fact is they are a 'for profit' company and they're happy to have as many naive hosts as possible peddle the share economy matra on their behalf.
I do wonder how long Airbnb or Uber can exist on % per booking platform. The market will ultimately see through this and flat fee alternatives will emerge. They are after all just listing portals backed by a billing system.
Robyn
@raymond & Elaine....Yes, have to agree with you to a certain extent but, on the other hand, it is doing what it is intended to do...It is giving a lot of useful information to....the Airbnb community...and surely that is good!! I stumbled across the forum about 6 weeks ago and thanks to some of that 'dedicated band' have received a lot of really useful advice. Advice I would not have been able to get from anywhere else....it's called, drawing on experience!
In addition, where possible, I do try to introduce and element of humour into my posts, and I do like to paint a 'picture', and I would like to think other contributors would do the same. We all have golden moments in this game that we will always remember, and I do agree with you that it would be nice to see more 'personal character' come over rather than the quick 'hit and run' one liners.
Thanks for your post Raymond & Elaine, perhaps you can inject that bit of 'colour' into the site that you feel it lacks....cheers.....Rob
Till & Jutta
Some problem here in our German-speaking "community"; just a different language.
Hier helfen wir uns alle gegenseitig. Stelle dich bitte kurz vor, verwende die Suchfunktion, und gib uns eine Rückmeldung.
Louise
No, the dispensing of free advice by experienced hosts is not good, not good at all. Because we experienced hosts do so much of the hard work associated with onboarding new hosts, the true cost of each new host acquisition isn't being borne by Airbnb. Therefore there is no disincentive for Airbnb to continue to indiscriminately recruit new hosts even though this is to the detriment of experienced hosts and, ultimately, to the Airbnb brand.
If you really want to help us hosts and in the longer term preserve the integrity of the Airbnb brand, stop volunteering your own time and expertise. There's nothing in it for experienced hosts and a lot to lose.
Paul
Actually, the largest flat fee alternative, HomeAway/VRBO, is rolling out traveller fees in February. The subscriber community over there is in an uproar!
Dave & Deb
Hmm, will they decrease the hosting fee?
If a host has helped you today in the Community Center, feel free to thank them, give them a thumbs up and/or select "Mark as Most Helpful" to the left of the thumbs up.
Olivier François
Yes, just saw an article which explain "hosts that have chosen to list on HomeAway sites for free and pay 10 percent commissions per booking would see those commissions lowered" said HomeAway CEO Brian Sharples.
Robyn
louise...You know, I looked at that for a while and re-read it, and Louise....you are absolutely right! All we are doing is cutting our own throats. Airbnb must love it, they have this totally unpaid publicity/customer support section doing their work for them!!
See, I just don't naturally think like that, I am not wired that way! You know, I do 4 days a week of volunteer work, I like to give back to the community. I am a gregarious person who loves meeting people and I guess that makes me a massive target for Airbnb and that ilk. I am just what they want because I love people and I will go out of my way to help...which is one of the main reasons I have been so active on this forum over the past month.....I just want to help!
It also has had a sobering effect on me in so much as I am seeing so many issues I would never of known about....and many of them have shown me a dark side of what a hosting site can be. After being on this forum I am no longer that innocent little 'vegemite' waving that Airbnb banner....don't get me wrong, Airbnb have been very good to me, but I have seen a lot of peoples distress, and I just want to help!!!
Thanks for making me wake up to myself Louise....we do all need a reality check at times....cheers....Rob
Ernest
Collossal failure by Airbnb. What a shame they are so out of touch with the amazing host community that they claim to value.
Louise
"Giving back" should be an essential part of everyone's daily lives, and those that do are showing that they're enviably self-actualised humans who sit right at the top of Maslow's pyramid. However, this is like being asked to 'give back' to Gina Rinehart. No. No. No.
Robin
louise We are getting off the thread here Louise but, four weeks ago we were burgled....well more particularly my car in the carport was burgled. Like a fool I had inadvertantly left my wallet in the car...not in view but, it was in there! Next morning I cancelled all the cards and went through the replacement process, and I was hoping that when they discovered there was nothing to be had they would just take the cash and throw it away and there would be a possibility of me getting it back....didn't happen!!
The saddest part about that whole exercise, if I came across one of those 'peckerheads' in the street in trouble, I would help them out! And yet it's cool for them to come and steal from me...
I am too trusting but, I am old....and you can't teach an old dog new tricks......That's why I have got straight up 5 star reviews! It does not matter if it's Bill the beggar or Gina Rinehardt, I will always want to help. I am never going to change, and that comes through in my hosting!....Cheers....Rob
Louise
So if you worked for Gina Rinehart and she asked you to stay back week after week to do a couple of hours overtime each day for no pay, you'd do it? Really? Why?
Robin
louise Louise there is a huge gap between helping people and being taken advantage of...and I am somewhat surprised you don't seem to appreciate the difference. I find your outlook very cynical, even almost bitter, but then again, I am a glass half full person rather than of the glass half empty variety!
I can't tell you how much joy I get delivering a meal to someone who will not see another human face in any given 24 hour period...that Louise is helping. If someone ahead of me is $2 short at the checkout...it goes on my bill. That Louise is helping!
But I did think you raised a very good point about midlessly offering expertise which will ultimately be to our dettriment...and you are obviously a good host, you have the runs on the board....cheers....Rob
Olivier François
robin, after dedicating many time to comunity I agree with louise. And it's has nothing to deal with helping people. We are paying airbnb and doing their job. We are learning people, who never imagine this is business, to become our competitors (for the best ones) or to create guests insatisfaction against airbnb (for the worse ones). In each case we loose. Comunity means reciprocity, comunication, trust, if you find it in helping is a joy, if not it's just taking advantage of kindness.
Robin
olivier François You are right Olivier and I did aknowledge that about Louise in her posts and I thanked her for making me aware of what I was doing, but Olivier.....you are doing exactly the same thing...in many of your posts you are providing information. It's because we are caring sharing people we do that Olivier, and you are no different from me, you help, because that's the sort of person you are.
I dare say Louise helps people too, it was just the calculating insensitive way she dismissed it that I felt uncomfortable about!! Cheers....Rob
"Olivier , vous avez raison et j'aknowledge propos de Louise dans les messages et je la remercie de me faire au courant de ce que je faisais , mais Olivier ..... vous faire exactement la même chose ... dans de nombreux messages , vous fournissez des informations . Il est parce que nous prenons soin des gens que nous faisons ce que Olivier , et vous ne sont pas différents de moi , vous contribuez de vous-même , parce que ce genre de personne vous êtes .
J'ose dire Louise aide les gens aussi. Il a été le calcul cynique utilisé que je me sentais mal à l'aise" !! Cheers....Rob
Kelly
Communicating with other hosts were great when Airbnb was listening to hosts. When we form a bigger voice, it was easier to be heard - that was what we thought.
Airbnb is saying 'community' - this is an endless loosing game on the hosts' side. Yes, we earn money - but this being 'community', basically guests can expect ANYTHING. And since we are getting paid, we are supposed to cope with it - if the guests get upset, we get penalized, if we don't want to upset them, we need to give what they want which is getting penalized anyway.
They don't educate the guests at all - it is all on hosts responsibility. It is really hard to feel 'community' when Hosts are the only one being pushed to try harder, better, somehow.
y
Olivier François
robin, ok but there is a limit, and boundary's being crossed. I spend so much time dealing with ABB issues just to manage my listings. Don't have anymore time to help on CC. I decided stop even consulting untill march and then will see how things goes on.
Olivier François
Louise
robin, I do 'appreciate the difference', of course I do.
My point is this; helping new hosts, as you and many of us (including myself) do, creates a much bigger problem for hosts than it solves. At its most fundamental level, by fostering the hosting aspirations of somewhat lazy and ill-prepared new entrants, it undermines the evolution of a robust, competitive market between peers that would otherwise lead to shift towards excellence in listing quality that in turn would enhance the integrity and value of the Airbnb brand.
Hosts who volunteer their expertise to other hosts in the community absorb much of the cost associated with both the day-to-day support of incumbent hosts and, more pertinently, the onboarding of new hosts. Airbnb is in an enviable position in that an unusually high proportion of its customers (ie hosts) are altruistically inclined, with the result that the altruistic nature of many hosts insulates Airbnb from the true cost of new host acquisition. The recognition (and to some extent exploitation) of this quality by Airbnb presumably also influences many of their operational and even strategic corporate decisions. Airbnb knows it can to a certain extent rely on the kindness of strangers and therefore there is little incentive for Airbnb to commit resources to raising the quality of the educational content on the website and/or improving the quality of CX.
I don't think any of us are too thrilled by the prospect of a reduction in demand for our own properties brought about by a seemingly endless supply of new listings flooding the market; properties that are often managed by hosts who apparently can't be bothered doing even the most cursory research before they bring their listing to the platform. Every day I see more and more listings popping up in search that are new to Airbnb and look like portals to hell. Is that in anyone's interests?
Another concern is the explicit directive given to those searching for information via the Airbnb 'Help' function to first consult the Community Centre. A reasonable person would therefore assume that the information conveyed by volunteers who contribute to these boards is somehow vetted by Airbnb and that it can be trusted and is accurate, but sometimes this is not the case. What happens when those who act on information gleaned from posting their query on the CC are subsequently damaged by misinformation. Will they expect and seek some form of redress from Airbnb? For this reason alone I think that the use of the CC as a de facto 'Help Desk' opens up an unacceptable conduit for reputational risk to Airbnb. Surely, if they ever do go to IPO, this is an area which would have to raise some concerns with the governance committee.
Robin
louise Hey, can't argue with a thing you have said there....everything you say is downright good commonsense. Your first post on this thread shook me a little but, did make me realise you are 100% right....Why give away that information that will simply rob your basket of goodies!
But the thing I was trying to get across since then, we are all different Louise, we all have a different style. Here is the final paragraph of a post I did an hour or so ago...
"When we had a cuppa and talked on her last afternoon she started to cry and my wife gave her a big hug! She gave me a ring when she got back home to country NSW and she said she didn't want a protracted farewell so she left before we woke and she said she cried for some time after leaving. You can see what she had to say on our last review. Rita, this is what happens, you reach out to people and they will respond!...And that is no doubt exactly what you have done.
There are many hosts who regard this simply as a business venture, a clinical money making jaunt on the side. They are not interested in the human side of hosting and have no desire to get into it! These people are the ultimate loosers because they don't get to see that lovely side of humanity that we see.....Keep it up Rita, you, and I, are what hosting is all about!! Cheers....Rob"
So Louise, yeah I am going to 'pull my head' in regarding the offering of advice to hosts but, I am not going to change the human being that I am....Cheers....Rob
Olivier François
louise, I totally agree with you in all points. And want to tell you about the strange mail airbnb CS send me yesterday. Airbnb don't asked me to search on CC but that I will be contacted by hosts comunity experts selected by airbnb to answer to hosts and guests... I let you a copy of original mail 'Pour accélérer le traitement de votre question, vous allez peut-être recevoir une réponse d'un de nos experts de la communauté. Les experts de la communauté regroupent nos membres les plus expérimentés, spécialement choisis pour apporter des réponses aux questions des hôtes et voyageurs sur Airbnb.' If selected hosts are now supposed to make the online help it would insulates more Airbnb from reality.
Cheers
Olivier François
y
Robin
olivier François Can I run something past you Olivier?....This a part of another post I did earlier today. It is related to the discontinuation of celluIar notifications which we have both been actively involved in. I would appreciate your thoughts on this.
"It's extremely disappointing we had to find out the way we did.....in bits and pieces by other users on the CC! Even the CC moderators have been kept in the dark. Phone-in help desk DO know all about it, but for some reason or other they are tight lipped, as though they have been instructed to keep it under wraps.
The only logical reason I can see for this silence is, the impact of this decision will be spread out over a few weeks, and even months as hosts dicover they are not getting messages! Had Airbnb made a general statement to the hosting community there would have been such an uproar that their customer support would have had no way of coping with it and the platform would have ground to a standstill!!! By spreading out the impact they have more hope of coping with what will be a major crisis within the company!
For the best part of two weeks I was hopefull that it was a concerted hacking attack on Airbnb, but the silence has gone on for so long that I have ruled that out. David, it's a numbers game, the numbers have been crunched and the decision has been made.....bye, bye cellular!!! Cheers....Rob"
What are your thoughts on this Olivier and do you think that you are possibly being groomed away from the forum to the moderating roll with this email that you have received??? Cheers....Rob
Oliver Francois
robin,
about Notification issue, I made an Alert post on both french and spanish CC so most people are informed and now I live with it. I know Airbnb will ever try to 'minimize' issues, we both know many people were affected but what % of all airbnb hosts does it represent? Perhaps it's just 1%.
We have to use the comunity to inform hosts about possible issues which may affect them and to be very watchful about. As Airbnb don't give us any information about changes, our responsability as making part of the comunity is to inform and share.
Accepting Airbnb general policy I knew in which sauce I was going to be eaten (french expression), no surprise for me. If they groom me away from the forum for acting like that, I was conscious and that's all.
Olivier François
Trevor
louise
You make some very good points. I understand why you would be cynical about the community forum working against the hosts long term interests. After all, why help a competitor? However you should not overlook the value that you gain from helping other hosts (to an extent).
We all have questions about hosting especially at the beginning. And many of us reached out to the "community" for these answers and found them. I don't think we can lay blame on Airbnb for leveraging the community to assist in the onboarding process when we have all benefited from this community.
We are all generating revenue as a direct result of the Airbnb brand. And many of us have contributed to improving this brand by lending our advice to other hosts. There will be a point (If it hasn't happened already) when free market economics will play a role, and your local market may see a slowdown due to over-saturation. Withholding advice from other hosts will not stop or delay this, it will simply mean more hosts offering sub-standard service.
For example: If the customer demand is there, and your neighbor host with a similar listing does not have enough towels, you will both still get a booking, however the overall quality of the brand (Airbnb) will suffer. Conversely if the demand is not there, and your neighbor host with a similar listing does not have enough towels, the fact that you are a veteran host (reflected in the number of great reviews) gives you a clear advantage and always will give you an edge over the newbie. Also your knowledge gives you many other advantages over the new hosts who are seeking advice.
One final example here in NY where the community forum helps us all more than hurts us. One of the most pressing issues we all have in NY is compliance. It is an issue that I have followed from day one as I was looking to monetize my hosting legally. I sought out the advice of hosts with similar experience, and lent out advice to hosts looking to comply. If my neighbor host with a similar listing gets shut down not only is the Airbnb brand lessened in the eyes of both my potential customers and the city who is looking to brand Airbnb hosts as "illegal hotels". Conversely as a seasoned hosts lending advice to new hosts, if I paint an accurate picture of what it takes to comply as a professional hosts I may actually find a partner who will "pay it back" or "pay it forward" or to a newbie who does not see this as a path he would like to pursue. (I actually decided myself after talking to other hosts and doing research that I would not pursue being a professional host myself). Which actually frees up the competition for my neighbor with loftier hosting aspirations.
I guess my point is, in the end "Free market economics" will play a much larger role than giving a newbie advice about how many towels to lay on the bed.
Thanks for reading
Trevor
Louise
@trevor I'm certainly not against helping people and continue to do it in other forums, just not this one.
My point is not that we should stop helping people, it's about no longer engaging in behaviours that stymie the development of a market in which the cost and associated risk assumed by all stakeholders is hindered by a disfunctional social contract.
A market in which free riders are cossetted is not a healthy, competitive, evolving market. In this case there are two classes of stakeholder, each of which to some extent free ride; (A) Airbnb - by 'outsourcing' much of its CX function to a labour class with no expectation of compensation who are engaged under a purely social contract, and (B) new hosts - for whom the barrier to entry is lowered by experienced hosts who allow them to access the incumbent hosts' IP at no costs
This isn't healthy on such a broad scale and, as I mentioned in a previous post, raises governance issues which should be of concern. Yes, there will always be, and there's probably a place for, peer-to-peer forums to exchange IP on an altruistic basis. However, when a stakeholder relies on a peer-to-peer forum to signficantly augment a universally acknowledged poorly performing CX function and also controls the content of posts, it becomes an entirely different issue. Therefore, I think it's important that we don't make the mistake of applying the same values-based argument, that we would use to justify participation on other, authentic, peer-to-peer forums, to our participation on this forum.
Milu
louise you've presented some compelling information and I appreciate the time that you're taking to give us your very informed opinion. The scales of naivete are falling off, everything you're saying makes complete sense.
I'm off to reddit/r/airbnb now
Sara
E@Robin couldn't have written it better myself I agree with you I have received so much help on here and tried to give back there are many small complicated issues only hosts know and not helping or sharing is not nice
having said that I wouldn't help all those people who post ads saying just opening any advice without reading any FQs
Robin
sara .....Sara, in a way I wish I hadn't come across this CC forum. I am seeing all the bad side of hosting. I guess it's all very well for me, in my area there is very little competition and I can possibly be a bit flippant about advice. Now that it has been pointed out to me I can see that what Louise and other have to say is correct, it's just that, in my life, I am a helper, always have been and it just goes against my grain to always take and not put back....
I absolutely love what Airbnb has done for me and my life has changed for the better! I am not just making a buck on the side, I am reaching out to humanity....read my reviews...I am not just a letting agent.....I am a 'Host'!! cheers....Rob
Trevor
Hi louise I respectfully disagree.
1) There is more harm done to the development of the Airbnb brand (if that is your concern) and this market, that comes as a result of misinformed hosts providing subpar service, than is done by informed hosts helping misinformed hosts.
2) The net gain of reducing Airbnb CX costs, is offset by the net gain of the hosts (old and new) who benefit from the community forums. ( I think it is a bit selfish for a host to reap the benefits of this free advice when they are new, and then shut the door behind them for other hosts who look to benefit from the same forums.)
3) I completely disagree about the effect our participation has on the competititve environment. I think that the determining factor in how well each host's perform, has far more to do with that host's level of service, and knowledge of their local market. In addition withholding information on this forum does nothing to dissuade a host from becoming a competitor, it only injures your market. If you are good at hosting, you can do more good by paying attention to price fluctuations, and good reviews, than witholding advice.
Lets use my local subset as an example... I host in Williamsburg NY, it is safe to say that the hosts here in Williamsburg are very savvy hosts, (I think we are the number one neighborhood destination on Airbnb) that level of service enhances the Williamsburg Airbnb brand. Another host may have a listing in Harlem (not sure just using as an example), where those hosts may not provide the same level of service or amenities as the hosts in Williamsburg. As a result the Harlem brand may not be as valuable as the Williamsburg brand. Less tourists, less revenue to be shared by the same number of "less informed" hosts.
Finally as it pertains to governance, I can only say that Airbnb seems to be taking a very active role in this regard. I have been to several community hall meetings and spoken to hosts and Airbnb reps alike. I meet with my local rep on a regular basis one on one. If what we seek is information from Airbnb, it is there. Just find out who your local rep is and invite them out for a drink.
I think the sentiment that is expressed here is a natural cycle of compitition. Those who got in first tend to want to keep all the marbles to themselves. The same thing is happening over at the UBER boards. Don't ask me why I know that. I would recommend (This is for all hosts) regardless of if you agree with me or not to trust your gut and then do some research.
Thanks for reading
Trevor
Trevor
Hi olivier François
Those are legitamate issues. I am not familiar with the international Airbnb community, and it sounds like it is much tougher to build a community abroad than it is here.
I can say this about this new forum. The old forum I only corresponded with my local community. This is the first time I am corresponding with the global community, and for me that is interesting. However as you describe it, this global interaction may be a bigger benefit for you than it is for me.
We will see.
Good luck to you.
Trevor
Till & Jutta
olivier François You forgot to mention the German-speaking CC... Active, but still missing the community feeling we had in the old groups.
Hier helfen wir uns alle gegenseitig. Stelle dich bitte kurz vor, verwende die Suchfunktion, und gib uns eine Rückmeldung.
Olivier François
So Sorry @till & Jutta, I never manage to learn German but that is no excuse ;-).
I agree with you and hope this feeling will hatch with spring at the end of old groups.
Olivier François
Olivier François
@trevor, I hope this will be a bigger benefit for all airbnb hosts ;-)
Olivier François
Trevor
olivier François
Agreed.
Till & Jutta
olivier François An Airbnb guest once told me, that the live is too short to learn German. ;-)
Hier helfen wir uns alle gegenseitig. Stelle dich bitte kurz vor, verwende die Suchfunktion, und gib uns eine Rückmeldung.
Olivier François
@till & Jutta,
personally I think everybody have some previous afinity with some other languages, but not alls... For example for me speaking spanish is as natural as speaking french since the first time (my grandgrandmother from south-west part of France always talked me in Occitan which is quite like catalán when I was a child). After all latin languages I speak are just others versions (español, gallego, portugués, catalán). Learning English have been more difficult and I thanks Airbnb because I never spoke much english since I am hosting!
So now need to get more german guests to be obliged to learn german :-)
Olivier François
Deborah
There are a few other issues related to this question of experienced hosts helping other hosts, which I have not yet seen discussed here.
(1) The more experienced you are as a host, and particularly the more experience you have helping other hosts, the less interest you will likely have in answering the same very basic hosting questions over and over and over and over. As well, you will likely be less interested in being used as a "tool" , and more interested in being known/viewed as a person with a unique perspective and wisdom. I speak from the experience of having been answering host queries for over 2 years as one of the moderators of New Hosts Forum, this group on the "old" Airbnb groups: www.airbnb.com/groups/41
And @trevor you may not be aware, (from your post about this being the first time you're experiencing a worldwide host community it sounds like you aren't )-- there actually HAS been a worldwide host community on the old Airbnb groups for the last 2 years. New Hosts Forum was one of the primary gathering places of this host community, along with Anecdotes and Stories ( www.airbnb.com/groups/429) and Hosting 911 (https://www.airbnb.com/groups/303 ) and Airbnb Products and Updates (https://www.airbnb.com/groups/39 ) as well as a few others.
(2) It is not the case that all new hosts are asking questions which we all had at some point and got help with. I would bet that the most successful hosts got started without actually needing any help from other hosts -- they were smart enough to find their way to the resources or info that answered their questions, or to find the Airbnb Customer service phone number. Many of us started hosting way before there even were host groups, so we HAD to figure things out ourselves. So in a sense, the hosts who are here asking VERY basic questions (as opposed to not so basic questions!) which many of us did not need help with when we started, are demonstrating that they dont' have the mettle that many of us had when we started, are not as resourceful, perhaps not as intelligent or perhaps not as willing to put in the effort to be a host. (I don't actually see too many "very" basic questions on this forum -- most of the questions are intelligent, but a good many of them are boring -- that;s another issue....) THere is a blog on this issue of hosts starting up hosting without being prepared to do so...it's here: Don't be An Airbnb Baby
(3) On the old Airbnb groups (examples given above) a culture developed, that if hosts asked questions which were far too basic, questions that demonstrated that they had not made a basic effort to do the work to become hosts, that is the feedback they would get from the host community. For instance if a host asks, "Does the guest pay me when they arrive at my house?" This suggests the host is NOT ready to start hosting, if they don't even know how Airbnb works. Such and similar questions would likely get the response, from this host community, , "please do some work and read the FAQs, explore the Airbnb site, read posts on this forum, before you list your space, because your question suggest you may not yet be ready to host." That was the culture on these old groups. What the culture on these new groups is going to be, is yet to be seen.
(4) Without regard to the Airbnb brand or the more complex issues louise has raised, I think it's not good for hosts to start up a business without being willing to put in a reasonable effort to learn how to run that business. It's not responsible. I am wanting to motivate hosts to take on the responsibilities that come with hosting, among which, is to seek to find answers to some very basic questions of how to use the AIrbnb site.
(5) Hosts like myself who have answered many hundreds of host questions over the last 2+ years on the worldwide host forums, tend to find that we aren't as interested in being treated as tools where you put in a coin and we spit out information. We want to be consulted because we have wisdom to share, something which holistically engages the whole of us, rather than being treated as encyclopedias who just spit out the same info over and over. What I have noticed on this community center, which @raymond & Elaine is sensing too (Elaine is one of the "regulars" of the old host community groups) is that many of the questions are boring. They are brief and wholly focused on information. "Gimme the info. Then I go." (WHere's the "community" in that? Is I think part of @raymond & Elaine's question and criticism) On the old groups, questions would often be presented with more "story" involved -- the whole presentation and the subsequent discussion was more personal. I tend to think this is in part a result of the alienating layout and offputting visual aspect of this Community Center, with its emotionally flat blue graphic of an empty city without any people in it, at the top of this page. OThers have commented they feel bored by this community center. So I reflect to myself, does a boring group layout, boring visuals, boring rectangles in a white on white space page, lead to more boring posts? It strikes me as possible....
(6) I think one of the points of @raymond & Elaine 's post is to stir us to reflection on just what are the elements that go to creating community. I personally dont think community is created by a Yahoo Answers type format where people drop in to post a question, grab the information they get, and then leave again. Community is created by sharing stories, by getting to know people, and this is done better when people don't only post one sentence questions and then grab-info-n-go, but tell a story, present a context, and take time to engage in a dialogue and appreciate the wisdom and character of those hosts who respond to them and dialogue with them. (I also don't think the "levels" numbers help at all -- nor do I believe the "most helpful" vote is helpful for building community -- these I believe are detrimental to rather than supportive of community --level indicators and "best answer" votes are Yahoo Answers features....)
(7) IT's also the case that many of the questions asked here, are really not questions for other hosts, but are more appropriately questions for AIrbnb customer service. Technical questions, questions on how to use the site, are best answered by AIrbnb. The kinds of questions that Airbnb customer service CANNOT answer, or answer well, are those which have to do with issues of judgement, or style, and that is where experienced hosts excel, and it's also where more of our interests lie. I find that with many experienced hosts, they are far less interested in answering questions from hosts about how to cancel a booking or how to call Airbnb, but more interested in "story" or "context" questions ----- what to do about a guest who seems to be carrying on an affair in their home, or who thinks that "no smoking" only refers to tobacco and who is vaping the place to smithereens, or who relates a tale of the spiky guest whose stiletto heels have jabbed a dozen holes in their hardwood floor.
(8) Answering boring questions encourages more of the same. I propose that we are in the midst of creating this community center by what we post here . IF hosts post dozens of boring Yahoo ANswers questions and other hosts diligently and tediously answer them all and look to see what points and "most helpful" scores they have racked up, then we are creating a "community center" where boring questions are encouraged and which looks like Yahoo Answers. ANd which those in search of community may flee, because to them it can appear, (as one host described it to me ) "mind-numbingly dull." By contrast, if we are sharing things that are interesting, engaging, colorful, etc, then we will be creating something else, something that IMHO would be more appealing. I just hope the dull layout and visual format of this forum doesn't too heavily mitigate against such efforts to create community.
