Post by High Priestess on Dec 30, 2015 23:32:40 GMT
Here's an example of a host whose guests "surprised" her at the last minute announcing they wanted to bring a 3rd guest, a child, to her property which permits only 2 guests maximum, and which is "not child friendly." When she called AIrbnb, what was the advice she got? They pressured her to accept the child!
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-198684
Carol-Anne shared Dec 30 2015
Extra child at last minute
I accepted a booking from a couple who are due to arrive today. Just now I have received a message to say that their 2 year old daughter now needs to stay and do I have a travel cot? I am concerned as there is no Travel cot and the stairs are not suitable for a toddler.. What do I do?
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Louise
Louise11 hours ago
Your listing clearly states that it's not 'family/kid friendly'. They didn't book with a child, you don't accept children. They can't stay there. It's not your problem. Tell them to resolve any issues with Airbnb regarding your cancellation terms and stick to them, rigidly. I don't believe for one nanosecond that the need to bring the child was a 'surprise'. It sounds like they just though they could ambush you into letting them bring him/her. Hold your ground!
Just message them back with - "I'm sorry, but as it states in my listing, we do not accommodate children as the house is not suitable. We are very much looking forward to you staying with us, however we cannot accommodate a child. If you wish to cancel your reservation, please contact Airbnb on - insert customer support number shown on itinerary - to discuss your options."
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Lisa & Lee
Lisa & Lee 9 hours ago
Also, your listing shows that it accommodates 2 guests. Point out this fact, and reinforce to the guests that you are interested nly able to accommodate the 2 guests who are included in their booking. Make sure you keep all communications on the Airbnb message thread.
Reply Like 3 likes Delete
Carol-Anne
Carol-Anne9 hours ago
Airbnb have suggested that I take them and should be covered by parental responsibility and Airbnb protection
Reply Like 4 replies Delete
Lisa & Lee
Lisa & Lee 8 hours ago
Call back and tell Airbnb that it doesn't matter what they say you will be covered under. Remind the customer service rep that your listing says 2 guests, and that is exactly what both you and the guest agreed to when the booking was made. Reinforce that you are neither obligated nor willing to accept a previously undisclosed 3rd guest. And if Airbnb offers to cancel it on YOUR behalf without penalty, politely decline. Remind Airbnb that it is the guest's responsibility to initiate a cancellation in this case (and for the guest to bear the cancellation penalties), and that if the guest chooses not to cancel then you will be happy to permit the 2 booked guest, and no one else, to enter your home and keep the booking.
Deborah
Deborah6 hours ago
Exactly like LIsa says -- she is right on the money. Hosts under no circumstances should allow an extra guest beyond the max # they accept, to enter their premises, regardless of what the imperfectly trained youngsters staffing the Airbnb customer service desk are saying. Sometimes, unfortunately, the first level of help at Airbnb doesn't provide good help, and you have to talk to a higher level someone until you get a staffer who is not asking you to just cave in and allow violation of your own rules, policies, terms, etc.
Louise
Louise3 hours ago
"Parental responsibility"? Oh really? Ask Airbnb to put their legal advice, because that's what it is, in writing.
Ernest
Ernestan hour ago
Tell Airbnb to stick their advise where the sun don't shine. Enforce your policies and the agreement made between the parties. Totally unsupportive response from Airbnb. What a shocker.
Queenie & Ted
Queenie & Ted8 hours ago
Airbnb suggested you override your guest maximum? Call back and speak to another representative - this response is inappropriate from them.
Reply Liked 1 reply•6 likes Delete
Maria And Larry
Maria And Larry7 hours ago
Agree!
Carol-Anne
Carol-Anne6 hours ago
Airbnb have cancelled with no payout to me apparently to give the guest time to make alternative arrangements. I have logged a complaint
Reply Like 4 replies Delete
Deborah
Deborah6 hours ago
Keep pursuing your complaint. Airbnb responded inappropriately and you should be paid for the reservation. Guest sought to violate your terms clearly stated, and guest should have to forfeit their entire payment as a result.
Louise
Louise3 hours ago
Wow! That is hands down the worst host treatment of all time. That's utterly appalling, as in 'go to the media' appalling. Have they lost their collective corporate minds? You state you don't take children, the booking was for two, your maximum is two and they want you to ACCEPT A TODDLER IN A LISTING WITH A STEEP STAIRCASE, AN OPEN FIREPLACE AND NO CHILD SAFETY FEATURES - IN WINTER!!!!!! - and have given you this advice on the grounds that toddler and host will be protected because this magical concept called 'parental responsibility' will prevent any mishap. If the press gets hold of this they will tear them so many new ones that the board will look like a deli counter full of swiss cheese. I reiterate, have they lost their *^&@%$! minds?
Ernest
Ernestan hour ago
Utterly appalling. Shame on Airbnb. As they grow, their already horrible customer service plummets to new depths. Shaking my head.
Peter
Peter16 minutes ago
Hear hear. Shame on them if that is really their policy. When I met an I unbooked babe in her mother's arms I didn't close the door but politely explained that Airbnb classes all human beings as guests and would they accept my alteration at no charge from 2 to 3 people. They took the message that this was a ticking off! I also mentioned it in their review.
Semion
Semion6 hours ago
Wow
Reply Like Delete
Deborah
Deborah6 hours ago
This by the way is a great example of what Andrew termed, "the Trojan Horse Guest." The Trojan horse guest tries to deceive you by lying to you that they only intend to bring X number of guests, and booking for X guests. It is only later on, such as the week prior to their arrival, or sometimes when they are standing right on your doorstep, that you see that the guest has one or even multiple additional non-permitted people. Or sometimes, you don't even see this, because guest checks in with you with X people, then invites all the additional illegal people to come over and sneak in when you aren't looking.
As Queenie states, it is very inappropriate for Airbnb to dismiss hosts' rules and terms, and side with the abusive Trojan Horse guests, and rather, Airbnb shoudl tell off these guests for their dishonesty.
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like Delete
Peter
Peter6 minutes ago
Goodness. I have Trojan Horses for NY. A couple booked for themselves and their parents. I met the four of them and they in a friendly way gave me a glass of wine before I went off for my NY break. But ... wait for it ... I went back for something I had left behind one hour later and lo! a pile of more luggage and four more human beings - all relatives. Today they kindly let me know they had found more bedding and their relatives were nicely settled in. And tomorrow they are having "about 15" people round to see in the new year. Mmmmm. I'm going to let it pass - until their review.
Carol-Anne
Carol-Anne6 hours ago
It may have been a genuine last minute change of plans by their relatives but that is not my problem. My problem now is that Airbnb made the wrong decision and have left me out of pocket on a very busy festive period. I have wasted my entire day on this. I will pursue complaint with airbnb
Reply Like 2 replies•3 likes Delete
Queenie & Ted
Queenie & Ted4 hours ago
Please keep us updated. I'm really interested in how far up the management chain you will have to go to get treated fairly.
Ernest
Ernestan hour ago
Email Chip Conley. (email hidden)
Andrew
Andrew4 hours ago
Yes, be persistent with your complaint. In fact, push it higher up beyond CX, as Airbnb's response here was appalling. (This is the rare case where I suggest writing to Chip Conley). You've been asked to override your minimum guest count and also denied your cancellation policy, both of which were inappropriate. The notion that Airbnb s liability coverage makes it OK to accept toddlers in a home with safety hazards is downright ludicrous. If a small child took a tumble down your stairs, insurance would be the least of your worries. The best resolution here would be for Airbnb to compensate you the amount you would have received had the guests cancelled per the terms of your cancellation policy.
Reply Like 1 reply•3 likes Delete
Ernest
Ernestan hour ago
Not to mention that Airbnb recommends acceptance agains the express will of the host.
Louise
Louise3 hours ago
Can you imagine the headlines - "Toddler with horrific burns" - A toddler was admitted to the burns unit of X Hospital with 3rd burns to over 80% of its body. The child feel against an unshielded wood burning fire while holidaying with her parents in an Airbnb property. The owner of the property said she was forced to accept the parents and toddler even though she clearly states that her house is not safe for children."
Seriously, if Airbnb CX are so keen to dispense legal advice, ask them to explain the terms 'unconscionable conduct', 'duress' and 'undue influence'.
The more I think about it the angrier I become. Yes, the host bullying attitude is vile, but that they would so recklessly endanger a child is just wicked beyond belief. Does their moral compass point only to their wallets?
Reply Like 2 likes Delete
Carol-Anne
Carol-Anne3 hours ago
The fire was not my main concern as it is an electric stove which looks like a woodburner and due to the central heating is for aesthetics only. My main concern is the open plan slate and oak stairs. A tumble down them would result in serious brain injury.
Reply Like 1 like Delete
Andrew
Andrew3 hours ago
For whatever reason, if the host says their property suits no more than 2 people and is not suitable for children, they have the final word. Period. Out of curiosity, did you hear from CX by phone or by email? I've found that, more often than not, my emails land with an idiot trainee who knows less about their employer's policies than I do and lacks basic reading comprehension skills. But when I contact them by phone (especially with the German number, which can also be used in English) I get an operator who is willing to listen as I explain the situation, and usually has the authority to resolve the issue while I'm on the line.
Reply Like 3 replies Delete
Carol-Anne
Carol-Anne2 hours ago
I first spoke to a nice lady then my case was passed to Liam who responded in emails as I don't get mobile signal. Liam sent the first email saying I should accept and I was covered because I had pointed out the hazardous staircase to guests and did I know about Airbnb protection. I then replied " I still feel un comfortable as this is a property geared towards couples and was not furnished with 2 year olds in mind. Surely Airbnb should not recommend that you exceed your stated occupancy and if I do would I be covered under the protection insurance?"
Louise
Louise2 hours ago
It just gets better or, rather, worse... So now Airbnb is acknowledging that the property isn't safe for a child and ordering you to accept the guests on the grounds that if the child does injure itself you'll have USD1m of public liability insurance to protect you? Incredible. There's a reason public liability policies typically offer a minimum of $10m of coverage.......
Andrew
Andrewan hour ago
Actually in this case it's for the best that they replied by email, as you now have hard evidence of the disastrous advice you were given. There are two ail addresses in corporate that I recommend you forward that correspondence to with your complaint; they'll be auto censored if i post them here but if you send me a private message I can email them to you. You can also see what happens when you post this exchange on Twitter. I still suspect, like Deborah, that this is the handiwork of an incompetent CX operaptr rather than a new policy that hosts be forced to honor bookings that exceed our limitations after confirmation. If the latter is the case, they will have a lot of us to answer to.
Deborah
Deborahan hour ago
Just wow ---- Sure doesn't help one to feel comfortable hosting with Airbnb with stories like this!
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-198684
Carol-Anne shared Dec 30 2015
Extra child at last minute
I accepted a booking from a couple who are due to arrive today. Just now I have received a message to say that their 2 year old daughter now needs to stay and do I have a travel cot? I am concerned as there is no Travel cot and the stairs are not suitable for a toddler.. What do I do?
13 comments
Following
Like
Delete
Hide
Louise
Louise11 hours ago
Your listing clearly states that it's not 'family/kid friendly'. They didn't book with a child, you don't accept children. They can't stay there. It's not your problem. Tell them to resolve any issues with Airbnb regarding your cancellation terms and stick to them, rigidly. I don't believe for one nanosecond that the need to bring the child was a 'surprise'. It sounds like they just though they could ambush you into letting them bring him/her. Hold your ground!
Just message them back with - "I'm sorry, but as it states in my listing, we do not accommodate children as the house is not suitable. We are very much looking forward to you staying with us, however we cannot accommodate a child. If you wish to cancel your reservation, please contact Airbnb on - insert customer support number shown on itinerary - to discuss your options."
Reply Liked 8 likes Delete
Lisa & Lee
Lisa & Lee 9 hours ago
Also, your listing shows that it accommodates 2 guests. Point out this fact, and reinforce to the guests that you are interested nly able to accommodate the 2 guests who are included in their booking. Make sure you keep all communications on the Airbnb message thread.
Reply Like 3 likes Delete
Carol-Anne
Carol-Anne9 hours ago
Airbnb have suggested that I take them and should be covered by parental responsibility and Airbnb protection
Reply Like 4 replies Delete
Lisa & Lee
Lisa & Lee 8 hours ago
Call back and tell Airbnb that it doesn't matter what they say you will be covered under. Remind the customer service rep that your listing says 2 guests, and that is exactly what both you and the guest agreed to when the booking was made. Reinforce that you are neither obligated nor willing to accept a previously undisclosed 3rd guest. And if Airbnb offers to cancel it on YOUR behalf without penalty, politely decline. Remind Airbnb that it is the guest's responsibility to initiate a cancellation in this case (and for the guest to bear the cancellation penalties), and that if the guest chooses not to cancel then you will be happy to permit the 2 booked guest, and no one else, to enter your home and keep the booking.
Deborah
Deborah6 hours ago
Exactly like LIsa says -- she is right on the money. Hosts under no circumstances should allow an extra guest beyond the max # they accept, to enter their premises, regardless of what the imperfectly trained youngsters staffing the Airbnb customer service desk are saying. Sometimes, unfortunately, the first level of help at Airbnb doesn't provide good help, and you have to talk to a higher level someone until you get a staffer who is not asking you to just cave in and allow violation of your own rules, policies, terms, etc.
Louise
Louise3 hours ago
"Parental responsibility"? Oh really? Ask Airbnb to put their legal advice, because that's what it is, in writing.
Ernest
Ernestan hour ago
Tell Airbnb to stick their advise where the sun don't shine. Enforce your policies and the agreement made between the parties. Totally unsupportive response from Airbnb. What a shocker.
Queenie & Ted
Queenie & Ted8 hours ago
Airbnb suggested you override your guest maximum? Call back and speak to another representative - this response is inappropriate from them.
Reply Liked 1 reply•6 likes Delete
Maria And Larry
Maria And Larry7 hours ago
Agree!
Carol-Anne
Carol-Anne6 hours ago
Airbnb have cancelled with no payout to me apparently to give the guest time to make alternative arrangements. I have logged a complaint
Reply Like 4 replies Delete
Deborah
Deborah6 hours ago
Keep pursuing your complaint. Airbnb responded inappropriately and you should be paid for the reservation. Guest sought to violate your terms clearly stated, and guest should have to forfeit their entire payment as a result.
Louise
Louise3 hours ago
Wow! That is hands down the worst host treatment of all time. That's utterly appalling, as in 'go to the media' appalling. Have they lost their collective corporate minds? You state you don't take children, the booking was for two, your maximum is two and they want you to ACCEPT A TODDLER IN A LISTING WITH A STEEP STAIRCASE, AN OPEN FIREPLACE AND NO CHILD SAFETY FEATURES - IN WINTER!!!!!! - and have given you this advice on the grounds that toddler and host will be protected because this magical concept called 'parental responsibility' will prevent any mishap. If the press gets hold of this they will tear them so many new ones that the board will look like a deli counter full of swiss cheese. I reiterate, have they lost their *^&@%$! minds?
Ernest
Ernestan hour ago
Utterly appalling. Shame on Airbnb. As they grow, their already horrible customer service plummets to new depths. Shaking my head.
Peter
Peter16 minutes ago
Hear hear. Shame on them if that is really their policy. When I met an I unbooked babe in her mother's arms I didn't close the door but politely explained that Airbnb classes all human beings as guests and would they accept my alteration at no charge from 2 to 3 people. They took the message that this was a ticking off! I also mentioned it in their review.
Semion
Semion6 hours ago
Wow
Reply Like Delete
Deborah
Deborah6 hours ago
This by the way is a great example of what Andrew termed, "the Trojan Horse Guest." The Trojan horse guest tries to deceive you by lying to you that they only intend to bring X number of guests, and booking for X guests. It is only later on, such as the week prior to their arrival, or sometimes when they are standing right on your doorstep, that you see that the guest has one or even multiple additional non-permitted people. Or sometimes, you don't even see this, because guest checks in with you with X people, then invites all the additional illegal people to come over and sneak in when you aren't looking.
As Queenie states, it is very inappropriate for Airbnb to dismiss hosts' rules and terms, and side with the abusive Trojan Horse guests, and rather, Airbnb shoudl tell off these guests for their dishonesty.
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like Delete
Peter
Peter6 minutes ago
Goodness. I have Trojan Horses for NY. A couple booked for themselves and their parents. I met the four of them and they in a friendly way gave me a glass of wine before I went off for my NY break. But ... wait for it ... I went back for something I had left behind one hour later and lo! a pile of more luggage and four more human beings - all relatives. Today they kindly let me know they had found more bedding and their relatives were nicely settled in. And tomorrow they are having "about 15" people round to see in the new year. Mmmmm. I'm going to let it pass - until their review.
Carol-Anne
Carol-Anne6 hours ago
It may have been a genuine last minute change of plans by their relatives but that is not my problem. My problem now is that Airbnb made the wrong decision and have left me out of pocket on a very busy festive period. I have wasted my entire day on this. I will pursue complaint with airbnb
Reply Like 2 replies•3 likes Delete
Queenie & Ted
Queenie & Ted4 hours ago
Please keep us updated. I'm really interested in how far up the management chain you will have to go to get treated fairly.
Ernest
Ernestan hour ago
Email Chip Conley. (email hidden)
Andrew
Andrew4 hours ago
Yes, be persistent with your complaint. In fact, push it higher up beyond CX, as Airbnb's response here was appalling. (This is the rare case where I suggest writing to Chip Conley). You've been asked to override your minimum guest count and also denied your cancellation policy, both of which were inappropriate. The notion that Airbnb s liability coverage makes it OK to accept toddlers in a home with safety hazards is downright ludicrous. If a small child took a tumble down your stairs, insurance would be the least of your worries. The best resolution here would be for Airbnb to compensate you the amount you would have received had the guests cancelled per the terms of your cancellation policy.
Reply Like 1 reply•3 likes Delete
Ernest
Ernestan hour ago
Not to mention that Airbnb recommends acceptance agains the express will of the host.
Louise
Louise3 hours ago
Can you imagine the headlines - "Toddler with horrific burns" - A toddler was admitted to the burns unit of X Hospital with 3rd burns to over 80% of its body. The child feel against an unshielded wood burning fire while holidaying with her parents in an Airbnb property. The owner of the property said she was forced to accept the parents and toddler even though she clearly states that her house is not safe for children."
Seriously, if Airbnb CX are so keen to dispense legal advice, ask them to explain the terms 'unconscionable conduct', 'duress' and 'undue influence'.
The more I think about it the angrier I become. Yes, the host bullying attitude is vile, but that they would so recklessly endanger a child is just wicked beyond belief. Does their moral compass point only to their wallets?
Reply Like 2 likes Delete
Carol-Anne
Carol-Anne3 hours ago
The fire was not my main concern as it is an electric stove which looks like a woodburner and due to the central heating is for aesthetics only. My main concern is the open plan slate and oak stairs. A tumble down them would result in serious brain injury.
Reply Like 1 like Delete
Andrew
Andrew3 hours ago
For whatever reason, if the host says their property suits no more than 2 people and is not suitable for children, they have the final word. Period. Out of curiosity, did you hear from CX by phone or by email? I've found that, more often than not, my emails land with an idiot trainee who knows less about their employer's policies than I do and lacks basic reading comprehension skills. But when I contact them by phone (especially with the German number, which can also be used in English) I get an operator who is willing to listen as I explain the situation, and usually has the authority to resolve the issue while I'm on the line.
Reply Like 3 replies Delete
Carol-Anne
Carol-Anne2 hours ago
I first spoke to a nice lady then my case was passed to Liam who responded in emails as I don't get mobile signal. Liam sent the first email saying I should accept and I was covered because I had pointed out the hazardous staircase to guests and did I know about Airbnb protection. I then replied " I still feel un comfortable as this is a property geared towards couples and was not furnished with 2 year olds in mind. Surely Airbnb should not recommend that you exceed your stated occupancy and if I do would I be covered under the protection insurance?"
Louise
Louise2 hours ago
It just gets better or, rather, worse... So now Airbnb is acknowledging that the property isn't safe for a child and ordering you to accept the guests on the grounds that if the child does injure itself you'll have USD1m of public liability insurance to protect you? Incredible. There's a reason public liability policies typically offer a minimum of $10m of coverage.......
Andrew
Andrewan hour ago
Actually in this case it's for the best that they replied by email, as you now have hard evidence of the disastrous advice you were given. There are two ail addresses in corporate that I recommend you forward that correspondence to with your complaint; they'll be auto censored if i post them here but if you send me a private message I can email them to you. You can also see what happens when you post this exchange on Twitter. I still suspect, like Deborah, that this is the handiwork of an incompetent CX operaptr rather than a new policy that hosts be forced to honor bookings that exceed our limitations after confirmation. If the latter is the case, they will have a lot of us to answer to.
Deborah
Deborahan hour ago
Just wow ---- Sure doesn't help one to feel comfortable hosting with Airbnb with stories like this!