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Post by katherine on Jun 26, 2016 22:07:35 GMT
What's an easy way to write a review that's not super rude and harsh but gets the message across that these people take advantage. They're a family traveling around Europe and mostly trying to get people to host them for free but when they're not able they would use Airbnb. I think they believe Airbnb is more like a hotel with a concierge. They were non stop pushing the envelope from the start. Asked if I could allow more than my limit to host all their teenagers. Then after I broke down and approved the request they wanted help to find a better apartment then mine. Finally they booked mine. Then 24hrs till check in and they wanted to cancel, get refunded and then rebook for dates that better suited them because they decided they wanted to extend their stay in the city they were currently in. They ended up sticking with original plans because they would not get all their money back from me. So then they ask well then we want to arrive very very late so we can stay longer in the city we are currently in. I said I don't have 24hr check in but I could let them arrive at 10pm. (Of course in emergency cases I'm totally flexible) this was no emergency just poor planning. They seemed grumpy but arrived close enough to 10pm. Then when it came to check out they wanted to leave their car in my private parking with their bags until just before the next guest arrived. I allowed it (I knew I messed up as they would keep the keys) so when they returned to the apartment to drop they keys off they also reused the bathroom when no one was in the apartment and when everything had already been cleaned and sanitized for the next guest. Also they were the messiest guests I've had so far using also the pillow cases as towels for a shower. Even though I have a washing machine and soap capsules. Everything possible in the kitchen dirty. But I get passed the dirty mess they left everywhere because I have a cleaning fee. I just can't believe how some people can be so rude. I bend my back to accommodate their big family when it was over my limit from the start. Then the way they spoke to me was also rude because I put a limit to the requests. They really tried to come off nice but they were far from humble. I learned my lesson that I need to be tough and enforce my rules but now it's review time...
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Post by Inanna (Shaun) on Jun 26, 2016 22:33:35 GMT
Hi Katherine, I have found it hard to learn that many guests don't appreciate it when you do things special for them. I'm so sorry!
How about this:
I spent a great deal of time trying to accommodate these guests, who kept changing their plans and even went so far as to ask me to help them find another listing so they could cancel with me. After I accommodated them by allowing an extra person as well as a late check in, they left the place a mess, all dishes in the kitchen dirty and pillowcases had been used as towels. They continually asked for extra things and did not respect my no.
(Just off the top of my head.)
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Post by katherine on Jun 26, 2016 22:53:15 GMT
Sounds good thanks! I'll use some of that! Just don't want to mess myself up with bad reviews.. That's my worry. Then the strange part was that this family's reviews were all good which was the reason I decided to allow them. Maybe because I come from the same place they do and are out of the country they took advantage of me whereas they didn't to locals of Italy?.. I don't know anyway thank for the suggestions!
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Post by Mabel on Jun 27, 2016 0:17:37 GMT
Katherine, I don't know what your guest rules are like but they may need some firming up. I think also sometimes that when guests have a few decent reviews, they tend to figure they are good guests, and may feel more entitled to "push the envelope" as you say, even further. Also the reviews they had amassed could very likely be written by hosts who hesitated to mention the negatives, as often happens. You said you don't want to mess yourself up with reviews. You do know that they cannot see your review till they post theirs, right? So there is no chance of a retaliatory review messing you up. They can only respond to yours, as you can to theirs. This almost never happens with problematic absent-minded disrespectful guests because they are not tuned in enough to be bothered with even that much attention.
I don't know if the way they treated you has anything to do with your locale.. A family with teenagers is already going to be pushing things, because of how stressed they sometimes are and may have figured they were entitled to ask for extensive needs to be met based on their experience as airbnb guests. I realize you did learn from the experience, how to build boundary muscles and that's good. I think that Shaun's review suggestions were on point and I would shorten the comments even more. Like starting out with something positive, then in an almost bullet-point style, state the infractions and impositions with as few words as possible, so it looks more casual and less vindictive. This is just my own wording but; "so and so were great with (insert any positive point here), with some unfortunate drawbacks; Many special requests, followed by many changes of plans, some problems with cleaning up... nothing extreme but seemed overall unsatisfied and unhappy even with host's continued accommodation of it all. Was also a bit uncomfortable with the tone they took in response to some of my limits. In all, I would still recommend guests to hosts with few rules/preferences and a higher cleaning fee to cover the extra maintenance." Maybe.
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Post by High Priestess on Jun 27, 2016 2:24:15 GMT
Sorry to hear about such a trying experience, Katherine. I like Shaun's suggested review.
What I have absorbed from listening to hosts' stories has been -- when you first get the signs of a demanding guest/guests, start to pull back and offer less, and draw your boundary lines, solidly. Do not give in to requests for extras. Extras are best given to those who don't expect them and are very grateful and surprised, touched by the courtesy. Not to those who demand extras. So the first demand/request, that of hosting more than your limit of guests, was the first place where you could do differently next time. Be very very careful about allowing extra guests. Of all the many types of "extra" things one could do for guests, allowing extra guests is probably the worst one for hosts to do, because it tends to be (as many anecdotes have revealed) the start of a cascade of demands. When they wanted help finding a better apartment than yours that was red flag number two ( globalhosting.freeforums.net/thread/455/red-flags-hosts ) and would have been a nice and tidy place to end the conversation with them and bid them adieu.
Review...something like..."X Y and Z were difficult guests...they wanted exceptions made, and extra services, when I provided these things, they expected still more. The space was left quite dirty. Overall, I cannot recommend them as guests at this time, and would suggest a hotel would be more appropriate for XY and Z."
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Post by CC on Jun 27, 2016 19:56:06 GMT
I have also had guests with great reviews who turned out to be total pains. I gave honest reviews.
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Post by cottagegirl on Jun 28, 2016 1:42:45 GMT
As to the extra guests, I had that happen last night. We had guests who reserved for 2 people. A young couple. they showed up with what I believe was the woman's younger sister - probably 12-14 yrs. old. I had the place set up with towels, coffee, mugs etc for 2, not 3. Plus it's an extra $10 for each person after 2. I didn't feel comfortable turning them away at that point. What would you have done? In my review, I am going to say something like "they were fine guests; however, we were disappointed that their party included 3 people when they only booked for 2"
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Post by High Priestess on Jun 28, 2016 2:28:50 GMT
I think for any host who accepts more than just one guest at a time (eg single occupancy only) it is vital that you confirm very very clearly the number of total human beings, of any age, who will be staying, at a point prior to arrival -- preferably just before the booking of the reservation. I recommend that hosts require guests to state the full name, age --and contact info for adults (eg phone and/or email address) ---of each and every person who will be staying, as a way of strongly emphasizing that ONLY THOSE PAID FOR AND NAMED IN ADVANCE WILL BE PERMITTED ENTRY. This really has to be stated strongly, I think, to have effect upon the guest. Simply asking how many they will bring is, as we have seen countless times, insufficient. The request of how many are coming has to be combined with a requirement to commit that to writing -- and with a clear statement that those not named will not be permitted in. Only after the host has made such considerable effort to require guest to state who is coming, would it be fair, in my view, to actually turn away either the extra guests or an entire party at the door. WHich is what should be done if the guests bring too many people.
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Post by katherine on Jun 28, 2016 16:13:15 GMT
CC I think it was you who told me on groups not to accept this family because they were over my limit. I gave in but I should have listened. Well atleast I've learned from the experience.
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Post by CC on Jun 28, 2016 18:35:29 GMT
Well, Katherine, I'm sorry you had a problem. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is Deborah interjecting here, re-inserting a deleted post: Right after this post by CC came this post by ANdrew: In five years of hosting and three years of being active in the host community, I have still NEVER heard of a positive story that began with a host "giving in" to a guest's demands. Never. It just doesn't happen. Frankly, if you need the money so badly that you feel compelled to yield the guest the upper hand in your own home - it's time to get a different job.
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Post by Di & Barry on Jun 29, 2016 2:16:28 GMT
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Post by High Priestess on Jun 29, 2016 4:24:18 GMT
Frankly, if you need the money so badly that you feel compelled to yield the guest the upper hand in your own home - it's time to get a different job. Ouch, Andrew--- Katherine is new here-- or at least new to posting questions or seeking help here--- I would hate to see her run away smarting from the help she tried to get. Making a mistake with a guest also doesn't imply we are only hosting for the money. Many new hosts are often too soft , and find it hard to say no. So one of the best things we experienced hosts can do for newer hosts is give tips and teachings on how to say no..... (Or how to say no, no and no NO , NOOO --- as the case may be --- I wish Shannon would drop in here now and then and lend some of her brass and sass because she is a good model for telling guests what is going to fly and what is not going to fly. And, Shannon has a big dog. I think when a guest doesn't respect the host they may respect a big dog.
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Post by Inanna (Shaun) on Jun 29, 2016 4:34:20 GMT
I like Devorah's review. While the good/bad/good sandwich works if a guest is just kind of annoying, or if a host hasn't yet had practice leaving reviews and so feels awkward, I've gotten to where if guests were a total nightmare, there is no reason to try to think of something good to say. That's not to say it has to sound personal, or mean. Just neutrally stating the facts (that they were a nightmare). It's beyond me how bad guests think that that won't happen. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is Deborah inserting a deleted post that came between this post by Shaun and the next one It wasn't meant as a rhetorical jab, nor was the comment intended specifically for Katherine (the better pronoun would have been "one" rather than "you"). It's just that I see so frequently that as new hosts become dependent on Airbnb as a source of income, they feel pressured into compromising their own boundaries or yielding their own power. Giving in to unreasonable demands to secure a booking, activating Instant Book when they fear they're losing ground in Search, granting outrageous discounts - all scenarios we've seen hundreds of times, and quite often in the prelude to a Hosting Horror Story. No doubt there are some Hobby Hosts out there who find themselves being treated as doormats even though they don't particularly need the money. I knew a CouchSurfing host who couldn't bring himself to kick out a nightmare non-paying guest even after he set a fire in his home. I have no useful advice for people like that, because I don't know what motivates them. But as we're adjusting our lifestyles and budgets around hosting, I firmly believe that it's important to keep ourselves in a situation that does not back us into the corner of taking inappropriate guests under financial duress - especially when the signs that they'll be a nightmare are plain as day from the beginning. It's much harder to say no to a bad job when you don't have another one to fall back on - I've been broke enough many times in life and know that all too well. Big dogs are lovely and adorable but I don't see how having one would stop a guest from exceeding your maximum occupancy, demanding unreasonable refunds, or being grumpy and rude and leaving a mess. They might be useful for in-home hosts with safety concerns, although a dog that would command the "respect" of an otherwise disrespectful guest would probably present a big safety and liability issue in general.
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Post by Inanna (Shaun) on Jun 29, 2016 4:38:06 GMT
Sorry, "Deborah" not Devorah. Getting a big dog is a good idea. I would like to have had a giant dog this month. That would have come in handy!
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Post by CC on Jun 29, 2016 12:57:41 GMT
Deborah, when I "liked" Andrew's comment about getting another job, I too wasn't thinking specifically of Katherine, but just generally of hosts who have listed time and again the bizarre things they're willing to do to avoid a bad review--WHICH MAY HAPPEN ANYWAY--or may not!! If that strategy ever takes hold, STR will turn into a big hot mess!! Saying no is the main tool in our toolbelt as hosts. Just no.
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