Also shared on Hosting 911
Hugh shared on HOsting 911 Jan 2015
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-102937
Airbnb Host Guarantee is WORTHLESS - The risk of sharing your property
Hi. I have been with Airbnb for three years and now have five properties in my neighbourhood on Airbnb. Recently, a guest left an iron burn in the carpet of a studio apartment. The carpet was less than 1 year old. The guest admitted liability.
In the past I have assisted Airbnb with press interviews. I have also shared a venue I own with Airbnb so they could host events.
The company that installed the carpet is no longer trading. I obtained two reports from installers that a match in colour and pattern for the carpet installed cannot be found. Accordingly, as the apartment is studio (i.e. one room), the whole carpet requires replacing as a patch from a non matching carpet would be very visible.
Airbnb will not reimburse the cost of replacing the carpet.Airbnb will not give me the security deposit from the guest.
Airbnb will not explain why they will not reimburse the cost of the carpet. They offered 10%.Airbnb will not give me the contact details for their management or legal team so I can discuss this.Airbnb has a "take it or leave it approach"
The risk of sharing your home with strangers is eased by the promise of a HOST GUARANTEE of $1 million. When you find this Guarantee is not worth a pinch of s**t you have to question whether to do it. I feel like telling Airbnb to "shove it" and let them deal with the next 50 bookings that will not be welcome. Thanks for nothing COOPER.
27 comments•3 likes
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Javier and Kym
Steven
Nic and Rach
Santa Fe International Hostel
Santa Fe International Hostela year ago
Did you make your claim within the stated time limit ?
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Hugh
Hugha year ago
Absolutely. I rang them immediately to hold the deposit and then made the claim on-line the same day.
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Javier and Kym
Javier and Kyma year ago
As a host, I'd like to know why they aren't doing the proper thing-which is make the guest reimburse the host for damages.
In the real world, tenants must pay for damages, why not Airbnb guests?
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Deborah
Deboraha year ago
I'm really sorry to hear about this. I completely agree with Javier and Kim. In the USA, in every state, the process of security deposit withholding is that if the landlord/property owner shows receipts for repairs/labor they can legitimately keep the deposit or part of the deposit. If the renter wants a detailed examination of the issues involved, then the burden is on the renter, who has to go to small claims court. So in the USA the bias in general is in favor of landlords/property owners, in that they do not have to first go to court in order to withhold from the deposit. THey need merely send copies of receipts. But the renter is the one who has to go to court if they feel the deposit was unfairly withheld.
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Deborah
Deboraha year ago
So -- moral of that story being -- I would like to see Airbnb use a process that bore more resemblance to the manner of doing security deposit deductions in every state in the USA.
Hugh
Hugha year ago
Hi. It is difficult to make a claim against a guest visiting from a foreign country. However, it is impossible to get contact details from Airbnb for the guest even if I wanted to file a claim in the local court.
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Deborah
Deboraha year ago
It is indeed very difficult to make a claim against a guest visiting from a foreign country -- and it is quite discouraging to hear that Airbnb won't give you contact details to file a claim in local court. I suppose that this means that hosts would do well to require guests to provide them all such details before they arrive for the reservation.
Deb
Deba year ago
Can we also collect a separate deposit from guests upon arrival? I wonder if there might be wisdom in this strategy? Or does Airbnb T&C not allow this?
Gretchen
Gretchena year ago
I thought this was common knowledge? We have our own insurance because Airbnb is so difficult to work with.
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Hugh
Hugha year ago
It came as news to me - the Host Guarantee promising peace of mind etc etc is just marketing fluff
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Deborah
Deboraha year ago
THe Host Guarantee is NOT meant to cover accidental damage -- that is covered by the security deposit. Host Guarantee is only meant to cover what amounts to criminal activity where police have been called -- eg vandalism of the unit, burglary.
Danny
Dannya year ago
The Host Guarantee is very uneven, even in the amounts they say they cover: in the USA kts a Million Dollars, in Canada its $900,000 (Canadian dollar is worth 80 cents US), in South America the Host Guarantee is ZERO!
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Hugh
Hugha year ago
In actual fact, world wide the coverage it is ZERO, regardless of the amount they spruik to attract hosts.
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Rick
Ricka year ago
they amount of the security deposit should have immediately been turned over to you....no excuse for that...you are due that deposit money...
However, their other "guarantee" is expressly reserved for "malicious & intentional" damage---as I found out when guests left some wet clothes on one of my Oriental rugs & they "bled" their color on to the rug...no coverage...accidental (according to airbnb)...I swallowed, took lots of deep breaths, tried as best I could to get the stains out; & dismissed the "airbnb guarantee" from that point forward....
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Deborah
Deboraha year ago
Yes, as has been posted about several times on several forums -- the Host Guarantee is ONLY for situations where a crime has been committed, and police were called. However, in this case the fact that Airbnb wouldn't even give Hugh the guest's security deposit to cover the damage, is what is troubling. This sort of damage is exactly what the security deposit is for.
Deb
Deba year ago
Exactly. I had a similar frustration when a guest skipped out on me and didn't pay his TOT tax. Airbnb refused to give me his phone or email. Ugh.
Gretchen
Gretchena year ago
Deb, why didn't you build that into the price?
Alison
Alisona year ago
I build it into my price and then have to pay tax on the tax. When it is passed on visibly you do not have to pay tax on the tax (in Hawaii). It is easier and more cost effective to have the guests pay separately.
Gretchen
Gretchena year ago
Aww, bummer. In CO that's not how it works.
Alison
Alisona year ago
Lucky you! It's a real pain. We pay almost 15% on the Total that airbnb invoices us including cleaning fee and their 3% AND the built in taxes! No deductions at all for the general excise or transient taxes.
Gretchen
Gretchena year ago
We pay of the 3% and the cleaning fee.
Deb
Deba year ago
It's also required by law. My county, like many others, states it needs to be itemized separately on the invoice. It specifically says it cannot be absorbed into the room rate. Here's a link to the tax code:
www.municode.com/library/ca/mendocino_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=MECOCO_TIT5REFI_CH5.20TAIMTR Gretchen
Gretchena year ago
I sure wish Airbnb would take a note from HomeAway and have a seperate item for taxes like they do for cleaning. I imagine it must look like nickel and diming people when you add it on after they've already agreed to a price on airbnb.
Deb
Deba year ago
It works out ok, I have it clearly stated in my description and photos. I actually have had only one complaint and one guest stiff me on it (arrived late/left early. But it's more work and it's slightly awkward. Hopefully Airbnb will create a solution soon!
Deb
Deba year ago
Very frustrating! Does anybody have examples of Airbnb actually paying out via Host Guarantee ? That would be an interesting stat.
Since we only have 48 hours to report can a repair quote be used instead of a receipt?
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Lexi & Nick
Lexi & Nicka year ago
Yes I claimed damage to sheets- a bloodstain. I purchase the new sheets straight away, made the claim against the guest, she refused and then I claimed against Airbnb and they paid up immediately. Granted it was only for $350 and it was my first claim in over 150 guests
Rick
Ricka year ago
I'm pretty sure in the heavily publicized incidents where a hosts apartment was trashed by partying guests, the damages were covered...Obviously laws were broken, police called...etc...A police report & lots of photos & docs may be necessary for a payout under the "insurance"...
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Deb
Deba year ago
How the heck did they burn the carpet with the iron anyways? Didn't they use the ironing board? Maybe we need to start requiring IQ scores in the guest verification process!!
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Rick
Ricka year ago
Deb-- I have more than one occasion with tenants where they were too lazy to get out the ironing board & simply ironed right in the carpet ( these were long term, not airbnb guests)-- unbeknownst to them, nylon & other synthetic fibers will "melt" when exposed to high heat-- thus leaving an iron shaped burn. Utter stupidity!!
Deborah
Deboraha year ago
Yes, I can give an example where the Host Guarantee worked very well. It was a situation experienced by Nina, a host who posts on Hosting 911, this forum. She had a guest who essentially burglarized her entire apartment while he was staying there. He stole everything of value.
Nina worked with Airbnb, and through the host Guarantee she was able to get fully reimbursed for all her losses. However, she underscored the fact that it was vital that she had documentation about what she lost -- receipts for the items lost and so forth. Here is her post about it:
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-99143Reply Like 1 like
Susan
Susana year ago
sadly, as a PROFESSIONAL PROPERTY MANAGER you need to take this up with your insurance company and consider that this is part of wear and tear and this damage is offset by depreciation on your taxes. As a PROFESSIONAL you should be well prepared to handle this type of situation in advance and not rely on a warm and fuzzy home based sharing economy business model.
Reply Like 6 replies
Allison
Allisona year ago
That completely ignores the fact that he should at the very least be able to claim against the security deposit and they aren't even supporting him in that. The entire Host-Guest-AirBnB relationship relies on trust and checks. We rely on AirBnB to follow their own policies when things go wrong. In this case they are horribly failing.
Deb
Deba year ago
True, but if you set up a security deposit amount for your listing you should be able to actually use it. In my opinion it is Airbnb who is not behaving "professionally" here. It is a good reminder for us all to re/read the Terms and Conditions regarding these details. I'm frequently surprised by Airbnb's responses to such issues. They have this odd policy of tight control over reservation details / process but then slow and inappropriate responses when inevitable issues arise.
Susan
Susana year ago
I don't trust anyone with anything and place little credence in the phrase "sharing economy" and "trust" with regarding to airbnb. Hosting is a business, period. airbnb is a business as well and it does not need to protect every Host from every angle. the tight control over reservation/details is due to IT security and fraud prevention, no more. other than that, if one wants to be a Host they "should" have such tools in their possession to protect themselves against damage, fraud etc. I've never had a problem with Guests whatsoever (knock on wood) and the current situation has happened to a professional property manager who should have sufficient knowledge and capability to prevent/remedy such damage. airbnb probably knows this as well so that they are not helping out.
Deb
Deba year ago
These are the T&Cs we agree to each time we accept a rez. I wonder how many of us have actually read them? I'm guilty of clicking through and ignoring the fine print.
www.airbnb.com/terms Deb
Deba year ago
Here's the verbage on Security Deposits: Security Deposits Hosts may choose to include security deposits in their Listings (“Security Deposits”). Each Listing will describe whether a Security Deposit is required for the applicable Accommodation. If a Security Deposit is included in a Listing for a confirmed booking of an Accommodation, Airbnb Payments will, in its capacity as the payment collection agent of the Host, use its commercially reasonable efforts to obtain a pre-authorization of the Guest’s credit card in the amount the Host determines for the Security Deposit within a reasonable time prior to the Guest’s check-in at the applicable Host’s Accommodation. Airbnb will also use its commercially reasonable efforts to address Hosts’ requests and claims related to Security Deposits, but Airbnb is not responsible for administering or accepting any claims by Hosts related to Security Deposits, and disclaims any and all liability in this regard.
Javier and Kym
Javier and Kyma year ago
Again, LOL, this is NOT normal wear and tear. This is precisely, exactly why a security deposit exists. I guarantee you that if you did this in a rental property, the repair would be taken out of your security deposit. You would not get to shrug and walk away and call it normal wear and tear.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
It seems to me that Airbnb only handles matters appropriately when stories go out to the press. This is a little f**ked up. And I am not understanding why they no longer hold the damage deposit on the guests' credit card. I understand that it makes their job easier, but certainly makes it more difficult for the hosts to claim anything as guests will have to agree on the claim.
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Albena
Albenaa year ago
I got my guest deposit + $, when a guest completely vandalized my apartment while I was on vacation.
It was malicious and intentional. Guest paid for the damage.
Airbnb mediated the process through their online tool.
I had the money deposited to my account within 4 days of claim.
Reply Like 3 replies•1 like
Deb
Deba year ago
That's good news, although must have been an awful experience. It seems the Host Guarantee is for criminal acts. Good to know. Did you also make an insurance claim?
Susan
Susana year ago
yeah, because if you'd gone public with the photos and the story then that would have been bad PR for airbnb.
Albena
Albenaa year ago
I did not make an insurance claim. It wan about 18 months ago, only 2 months after I started listing on Airbnb. I'm still researching on insurance that would cover short term rentals. And yes, it was an awful experience that almost made me delist my place.
Tanya
Tanyaa year ago
This all sounds scary ... I just got a confirmed booking for one person on the weekend for the first time. I guess I will have to see how it goes!
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Susan
Susana year ago
all will probably go well, in the grand scheme of things it is the rare situation where malicious damage is undertaken on purpose and egregious damage (such as the iron burn) happens. but when these things do occur, there seems to be a disconnect between what is expected by Hosts for airbnb support/help and what is actually given by airbnb.
Tanya
Tanyaa year ago
Ok thanks for your response Susan
Susan
Susana year ago
Tanya, beef up your listing description to include your (a) House Rules [make them such that they set boundaries and provide information for your Guests] (b) what type of Guest is best suited for your accommodations (c) what type of behavior is not condoned and what the penalty is for not respecting your limitations (d) whether children, pets, etc are allowed (if you are not childproof you probably should mention this) and (e) whether you offer discounts or not. Include in your listing description any other items that you feel Guests would need to know regarding (a) quiet hours (b) bringing other guests into your accommodations.
Joanna
Joannaa year ago
This is why loss adjusters and professional property managers go to school, something that I'm not convinced is a requirement for AirBnB staff handling these kinds of issues. Based on the above, an offer of 10% certainly does not seem realistic number on the face of it and most unlikely to achieve an amicable settlement between host and guest, which is the goal. That's AirBnB's job, to be neutral, and it's quite a skilled one, at least here in the US. Of course the guest wants to pay 0% and the host wants to receive 100% out of pocket expenses, but it's not as simple as splitting the difference. It seems you are in Australia, so what follows may or may not be relevant, as these things tend to be regulated by local law, but the view from New York is like this. 1. Was the carpet fit for purpose? Meaning having a value within norms for a rental property, not an antique that should have been on a wall, not the floor, or a modern hand knotted masterpiece etc. The answer they're looking for is mid-range or how could the guest have known of the higher than normal value. 2. Could the damage be considered fair wear and tear? Meaning, it doesn't matter if it was accidental or deliberate, was it caused by normal use, or by neglect. I would say that in this case, it's quite important to know if there was an ironing board provided and that the ironing board was also serviceable. If not, then you may not have a great case because where else were they supposed to do it? If the board was in clear sight and they were just too lazy to use, that's clear guest neglect, same as causing marks on wood tables from not using provided drinks mats or taking a chair to a beach that gets left there and washed away by the tide. Yes, I've had both :-). 3. What was the expected life span of the carpet that has been lost as a proportion of total life span? Random numbers, but let's say a carpet is serviceable with normal wear and tear for 10 years (I think that's too high for a year round rental with high turnover, but it makes numbers easier). For a 9 yr old carpet, with 1 year of use lost, that's 10%+/- compensation. It doesn't matter that the carpet has been destroyed by the guest and you have to replace it a year ahead of what you were expecting, you can't expect the guest to compensate you for use you've already had, which overrides your inconvenience. However, a less than 1 yr old carpet at a minimum it could be argued as 90%+ of serviceable lost, and it would not be unusual for 100% to be regarded as fair depending on other mitigating factors. Additionally, if you're a professional property manager who manages property for clients other than yourself, then you have an hourly rate for this kind of work. That can also be added to the claim since you cannot be earning money elsewhere whilst you're spending time for which you normally charge on yourself. If so, then the compensation could rise above 100%. However, if this is not your day job, then unlikely you will get compensation for your own time, sorry about that. To be clear, I haven't had a claim with AirBnB that rises above the level of the security deposit, but had no issues with one that was calculated along the above lines for an area rug that was less than a year old. I try not to forget that AirBnB is a very young company and whilst they try hard to get it right, they do fall short on experience, and I need to remind myself that is one of the risks I'm taking and also to share my knowledge and experience to help them get better.
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Deborah
Deboraha year ago
Thanks for this very astute analysis!
Nic and Rach
Nic and Racha year ago
Now that's what we call " Professional Experience " well explained and I'm amazed.
Salvia
Salviaa year ago
Sigh, this is exactly why I continue to put the replacement of my wall-to-wall carpet in my guestroom on hold. (But ironing on a carpet - aarrgh!)
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Fiona
Fionaa year ago
I don't understand why Airbnb is refusing to give you the Security Deposit for the damage. That is what it is for!
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Steven
Stevena year ago
I've the similar situation, this is a nearly $3 Million new house, the guest put drinks and food mark on walls, make little holes, black and other colors, and scratch on almost all walls. Wood floor also damaged and difficult to find the same wood. Bench fibre has food mark.
The painting and repair walls cost $2950. And additional cost for cleaning.
But the host guarantee only give $200.
Why host need to suffer the huge lose?
How can host protect damage lose?
What's the function of host guarantee?
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Susan
Susana year ago
why on Earth would you rent a $3 Million home on airbnb? I would find an astute professional property manager to handle this.
Javier and Kym
Javier and Kyma year ago
I think you're being soaked on the price of repairs. Spackle and touch-up paint is not that expensive. If you want to save even more money on a rental, paint every room the same color. Way easier to do touch-ups. Wood floors are bad choices for rentals. If you're going to continue to rent, just buff it out best you can and replace it with something cheaper and more durable in a few years. I've hired maid services to come prep between SFH rentals and mine have never been as expensive as yours. And these chicks clean out moldy fridges and dirty ovens. Shop around. If you're going to offer furniture for guests/tenants, you need to have your own way to spot clean. Buy a little carpet cleaner and search online for specific stains. In other words, you can't offer a $3 million new house as a mere rental. It's too nice. That's why you don't see Lambos and Ferraris at the rental cars at the airport. There's no profit in it, only loss.
Karyo&Colin
Karyo&Colina year ago
I have to agree with the others..you must be crazy to let a 3 million dollar house on airbnb, surely people looking for that type of property would be talking to top notch letting professionals... If I had 3 million dollars to spend on a house I would retire!
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Nic and Rach
Nic and Racha year ago
I am with you on that Karyo and Colin and just enjoy life as it comes..
Lexi & Nick
Lexi & Nicka year ago
I was paid out for my claim after the guest refused to take responsibility. I purchased a new item and presented the receipt immediately and was repaid within 24 hours.
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Hugh
Hugha year ago
Happy to report a happy (and confidential) ending to this saga.
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Deb
Deba year ago
Glad to hear you had a happy ending. Perhaps you could share the details so the other host who participated in this thread can learn how best to protect our property when dealing with Airbnb and guests?
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Hugh
Hugha year ago
Hi Deb. Thanks for participating in this thread. The resolution is bound by a confidentiality agreement.
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Deb
Deba year ago
Was that required by Airbnb?
Deborah
