Post by High Priestess on May 30, 2016 20:43:20 GMT
Jojo shared on Hosting 911 in Jan 2015
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-102668
Is this guest trying to intimidate me?
I received a reservation request last night, from this guy who is a founder of some luxury aviation rental company who is coming into town with his colleague to attend a conference. I saw that his airbnb profile is very new, from January 2015 and no reviews. So I asked him to confirm that he has reviewed my house rules which includes no outside visitors allowed. He responded back and said he is ok with it.
This morning he emailed and asked if he could bring a few colleagues to the place for a 'quick meeting'. I told him no, we don't allow that. He then said, please cancel the reservations since this will not work for us. I told him cancellation should come from his end. My cancellation policy is 'strict', so obviously he saw that he would be charged a 50% fee if he cancels. He emailed and said: please waive the cancellation fee. He also said: Airbnb is telling me that you have the option to give us a full refund. Please do so.
Now, I'm quite lenient when it comes to guests canceling, but somehow this guy rubbed me the wrong way. I feel like he is trying to intimidate me, since nowhere in his communication saying that he made a mistake, would I please waive the cxl fee, etc.
What do you think? What would you do?
13 comments•3 likes
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Kelly and Fabian
Joanna
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Susan
Susana year ago
so sorry dude. cancellation policy is strict. no refunds given. cancel the reservation. talk to airbnb if you have an issue.
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Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
Bummer - it sounds like he's trying just trying to get a refund if he can.
When is his reservation? If he cancels it and you are able to book it, you could offer to refund him.
I'd also use "guests/visitors" in your listing just to be crystal clear.
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Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
*sounds like he's just trying
Susan
Susana year ago
the cancellation policy is what it is. i wouldn't offer a refund, only in the case of a dire personal emergency.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Thanks Julie & Eric, When you said to use "guest/visitors", were you referring my house rules, or was it in original post? I edited the listings so many times now so I got lost sometimes and it is very helpful to have a fresh set of eyes
Thanks again.
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
In the house rules - I didn't check your listings. Let us know how it goes!
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Ah, I see OK, I should have said 'outside visitors'. Basically my house rules said only those in the original reservations are allowed in the premises and no outside visitors allowed, day or night.
Andrew
Andrewa year ago
Yes, he is trying to intimidate you.
No, he is not by any means entitled to an override of your cancellation policy just because he doesn't wish to observe your rules.
However, at this point, the worst case scenario is that the guest decides to cut his losses and proceed with his confirmed reservation. Obviously, he's turned out to be a total douchebag that is going to make you miserable for his whole stay, possibly kick up a fuss and demand a refund later, or leave you a nasty review. With that in mind, you're probably better off taking the path that will maximize his odds of cancelling quickly.
What I would do in this position is persuade him to cancel immediately and offer a refund for any dates that are successfully re-booked. If this doesn't work, my final offer would be reverting to the partial refund that he would get under the Moderate cancellation policy.
And then, I'd switch to the Moderate policy for future reservations, as it leaves you far less likely to get into conflicts like these and still gives you a chance to break even on last-minute cancellations.
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Susan
Susana year ago
I dunno, offering a refund despite the strict policy appears to thwart Host boundaries with regard to cancellations. The Moderate policy is more Guest-friendly, yet that too can be disputed by Guests as well. At the end of the day, I'd stand my ground and offer a discount for any future reservation in lieu of caving into the Guest requested refund.
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
There's also the possibility that the guest could talk Airbnb into a full refund and blocking the dates. Not sure I would want to risk profiting from the strict policy, especially if I could rebook.
Susan
Susana year ago
you can't know if you can rebook unless the dates are open so the Guest must cancel. therefore, have the Guest cancel and offer a discount for future stays as, really, it is the Guest who feels the accommodations are not suited for him, it is not the Host's fault at all and the Host should not be placed in the situation of being intimidated into a refund due to the possibility of a bad review. I'd call airbnb and have them cancel it and deal with the refund issue.
Andrew
Andrewa year ago
I wouldn't offer a discount on future stays if the guest is a pushy, rude, intimidating arsehole! I'd rather he go stay at the Marriott instead.
scott
scotta year ago
I agree with Andrew. The worst outcome would be if the guy opts to stay anyway so he doesn't lose that 50%. He will be awful.
Andrew
Andrewa year ago
Susan- I think that's the most ethically satisfying approach, but I'd still seriously take into consideration the fact that the host now knows that the guest is an undesirable one to have in the house. Armed with that knowledge, any approach that increases the likelihood of him voluntarily canceling is worth considering.
It's true, disputes do come up with the Moderate policy, but I feel I'm in a better negotiating position if the offer seems like a fair compromise between both parties' interests. The Strict policy is a little extreme for my tastes, especially when re-booking is still a likely possibility.
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Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Thank you so much, Susan, Julie & Eric, and Andrew. You all have been very helpful. I also spoke with Daniel from CX and he was very helpful and comforting. I definitely do not want this guest in my house and weird enough, I had that bit of a red flag when he submitted the reservations request last night. For someone who wanted to book for 3 nights with a colleague, he said he wanted the full kitchen, the patio usage, and didn't mind the 2 bedrooms being only separated by a curtain. And after his email this morning, I realized that he wanted to use my place for a business meeting venue for his colleagues/clients.
Again, it is not so much of the refund, it is more my resistance because he is being demanding. So I'm totally with you here, Susan.
However, Andrew brought a very good point. At the end of the day, it is my emotional being that I need to take care of, not a tug of war with this jerk. And Andrew you're right, I don't want him for any future stay either. But if I do change to 'moderate cancellation', what would be the benefit for future?
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Andrew
Andrewa year ago
It seems to me that the Moderate policy reduces the odds that a cancellation issue will be escalated to the point that you'll receive no refund at all. It gives guests more confidence to book quickly rather than dithering about when you've pre-approved them. And it lowers the stakes when issues like these come up, thereby reducing the potential stress of the situation. The downside is that you don't see compensation for cancellations that are made more than a week ahead - but as a host in a highly demanded market, with the added benefit of a post-cancellation search bump, this is unlikely to cause any losses on your end.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
So just FYI, this reservation is for next month and he just made it last night. So in general, I would have refunded 100% with no problem if he would have requested it. It happened quite a few times. If I were to follow the strict cancellation policy, it would have been 50% charge, the same as if it was moderate. And obviously the guy wanted to have ALL his money back?
Stan & Maggie
Stan & Maggiea year ago
:-( sorry this is happening! I would only offer extra refund if you can book the dates ! As its a month away you can use this as a carrot to get him to cancel, you certainly don't want that kind of energy around. Take comfort in the thought that his new luxury business will suffer due to his attitude!
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Thank you so much, Stan & Maggie! Yes, I was thinking the same - how could you run a successful business with that kind of attitude? Even Steve Jobs was nice to people when he needed them!
scott
scotta year ago
It's only a 3 days booking? I would just refund all the money and move on. Otherwise it's going to drag out and mess with your head.
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Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Scott, yes, fully agree. That's why I love this kind of forum, to get others' perspectives. I know logically, that's the right thing to do. I just got caught up emotionally with this.
Fiona
Fionaa year ago
Letting him intimidate you into ignoring your own policy encourages the behavior in him and in everyone he brags to about how successful he was. It seems to me the compromise is he should cancel with Airbnb and you can offer him a refund if you rebook the dates.
Fiona
Fionaa year ago
And then change your cancellation policy going forward to something you'll enforce.
Leah
Leaha year ago
I just get peeved when they have some.sense of entitlement. That irks me!
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Thanks Fiona & Leah. I get cancellation here and there, and I treat that as individual case. Like there is a guy last week who booked the place for 9 days and 2 days prior to check in, his first wife passed away. Fortunately he had travel insurance which he is now checking to see if he could reimbursed. But I told him if not, let me know and I'd refund for as much as I could. But when guests wanted to cancel the next day after they book for whatever reason (wrong dates, mom canceled her visit, etc.), I just normally let them cancel with full refund. And yes, that sense of entitlement just irks me!
scott
scotta year ago
I find the older I get, the less inclined I am to get caught up in stuff. I just let things go and forget about them. Years ago I worked here for a great woman from SF. We were having terrible trouble with a client and I was getting all indignant and things were escalating. I'll always remember her saying to me, 'Scott, I'll fall on a sword, but I'm not falling on a toothpick. Let it go.'
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Jojo
Jojoa year ago
I like that motto. Although jokingly, it is less painful to fall on a toothpick But yeah, I think that is a good wisdom to have.
Leah
Leaha year ago
I think the customer service rep that hit the ball back in your court with the comment that the host can fully refund the guest did you a disservice. They should not have said that and kept that as an unplayed card. Have him cancel.
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Jojo
Jojoa year ago
This is the other email he sent yesterday: Will you refund us in full? airbnb said i should not cancel until we speak with someone from the trip experience team.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
But when I called airbnb and asked, the CX rep said that didn't make any sense since that was between me and the guest. On the other hand, this guy is a new airbnb user, so how would he know about trip experience team when I didn't even know they had such a team?
Leah
Leaha year ago
So my sense is he is trying to skirt the system and play you against CX. Ultimately, CX should have said, This is Jojo's cancellation policy. You will get X amount back minus airbnb service fees which are not refundable. Period. My take on it, as others have read, mentioned, or experienced before, is that airbnb favors the guest and will try to get the guest back his money, hence saying you also have the power to give a full refund. If you don't necessarily want to be dealing with potential refund issues and if money isn't the issue, then I do suggest a moderate policy instead.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
I completely agree with you, Leah. I don't understand why they leave the hosts to fend for ourselves either. They shouldn't have told the guests to contact me. And again, this happened quite a few times before. The difference is, those guests in the past was nice about it and requested if it was possible. Not this guy tho. He was TELLING me to do that.
Salvia
Salviaa year ago
Although I shy away from these kind of conflicts like the devil would shy away from holy water I would consider to stick to the guns. Hosts are already "held hostage" by threatening retaliating reviews and there are misleading rumors and statements that you can bater prices and can avoid the platform to save fees. If we let guests get away too easily with "mistakes" we will have more trouble in the future.
Leah
Leaha year ago
And as a fellow SJ host - don't pawn them onto someone else! Ha! Also, as you are well aware, everyone who is coming to Silicon Valley is some CEO of a startup just like everyone in LA is an actor. They don't mean they are better than you and usually still piss poor. Don't let him take advantage of you for trying to flaunt his "entrepreneur" power status.
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Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
wonder why "fellow" and "San Jose" and "Host" show up in the filter as an email address. the filters are so weird...
Leah
Leaha year ago
No kidding!
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Oh Leah, you're completely right. And with that said, I have another story. This is why I am screening my guests even more carefully now. So last month, I got a last minute reservations request for 2 nights. The guy is a stanford grad,and a startup founder. his self description is a 'jetsetter', Once I accepted, I got an email from airbnb, saying payment was rejected. At this point he already had my complete address, direction how to get to the unit, and a keyless code (later on I changed this and not giving out code until just before arrival). The guy called me, assured me it was just a mistake since he accidentally booked 2 places at the same time, but he wanted to stay at mine. He gave me his linked in profile and offered to paypal in case there is still a problem with airbnb payment. True enough, paypal payment was made. The next day, he called and asked to extend for another night and if he should alter the reservations on airbnb. Thinking that I already got the paypal payment, I said I'd just refund you the difference once payment cleared. Long story short, on the morning he was supposed to check out, his paypal payment was canceled, and when I went to the airbnb messages, everything has been deleted by airbnb with a red alert note saying I should cease all communication with the guest. I was at a family's home at this time, and we drove to the place right away and went in and saw him still sleeping! Anyway, he finally woke up and got up, eyes blood shot and I was feeling a bit guilty at this point since the guy was so young and so nice and very polite. He profusely apologized for everything and he immediately wrote me a business check. I deposited the check right away on my mobile banking apps. And he left shortly after. Money was in my bank the next day, but 3 days later I saw that it was credited back for bad check (whatever term they used). And the day after, I got $12 penalty for that bad check. Even until now, I'm still confused with the guy. He did go to stanford - his name was on stanford page. And he did have the startup: Matching musician to music industry. So it is like Airbnb for us, or uber for taxis, but this is for musician. Why would he do this kind of petty crime? BUT, lesson learned. And if you have any slightest red flag with potential or current guests, always reply from your mailbox, not the airbnb dashboard since if anything goes wrong, they would delete all the messages history and you have nothing in your hand!
Leah
Leaha year ago
That is awful! If they are some startup exec but are using airbnb, means they haven't "made it" yet, just as an actor still waiting tables.
Susan
Susana year ago
identity fraud, scamming etc. is blind to income, education and wealth.... in other words, being nice and going to Stanford doesn't rule out bounced checks, scams and fraud. As a certified fraud examiner, what one needs to learn is how to profile Guests from their initial inquiry, to the reason for their stay, to how many guests, age etc. A Host's antennae must be refined enough that one doesn't over-ride the facts of the Guest by placing their own perception on the person, in other words, don't read anything into anything, if the guest gives the Host a "gut feeling" that something's odd, the facts don't match up, or whatever, just politely decline and move on. The key to getting "good" guests is a highly refined, inclusive listing description as well as that refined sense of whether the potential guest is on the up and up. my .02
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Susan, trust me, I learned lots more about people now than ever in my life before I keep telling myself now: Look at the evidence, don't listen to what they say. I have been declining more guests now and although sometimes I feel that I probably make a mistake by doing so, it still is a peace of mind at the end of the day.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
If they are some startup exec but are using airbnb, means they haven't "made it" yet, just as an actor still waiting tables. Not necessarily. I had this exec who rented our family house (the entire house) before, for a month and half. He really is a top exec for a large/known company (and a white house fellow). He was doing that to check out the neighborhood and ended up buying a place a few blocks away.
Christel
Christela year ago
Emails and urls. Take care with words (email hidden). Also take care with sentences starting with a two letter word, particularly if you forget the space after the full stop. This website might see this as a top level domain, like c o m, a t, or c a.
Danny
Dannya year ago
ANY kind of payment outside the AoirBnB system will ultimately get you into trouble, not worth it.
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Jojo
Jojoa year ago
I know Danny, but Airbnb didn't give any option either. They said I could cancel with the guest, however the guest has already checked in at that point. That's why I don't understand why their payment system has such a huge flaw. Guests shouldn't be able to submit reservations when the credit card is invalid/expired. And this happened to me a few times, although in most cases it sorted itself out. That's why I didn't worry to much when I had that initial experience with that guy.
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
HUGE flaw - I posted about it a few days ago and switched my calendar settings for two days advance notice in an effort to avoid this in the future.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Exactly! When I make an online purchase with an invalid credit card, the transaction wouldn't go thru. So why can't Airbnb use the same system?
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
I think they do, but apparently they retry for up to 48 hours (?) and then even after the guest pays via PayPal when they receive the email from Airbnb, it requires some manual intervention to send the email notifying the hosts that the payment has been made. It's pretty ridiculous.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Do NOT accept paypal payment or a check (unless it is a cashier check) for last minute reservations, as it takes a few days to clear. And that's what happened with that startup/stanford guy.
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
Right - Airbnb emailed him a way to PayPal to them at the same time they emailed me. Before I knew he'd paid them via PayPal, I told him we'd need to get it settled in cash by 8 PM the night they checked in (I got the email about the payment not going through from Airbnb at 6 PM that night). Here's the email: www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-101553
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Wow, TWO days! That is ridiculous!! It happened to me a few times, but definitely not 2 days, unless I didn't notice since it was for reservations months away. I received similar emails as well, but in mine, it says something about hosts are not allowed to receive any cash from guest, or otherwise the listing will be removed. This was when the guest was already staying with me!
Javier and Kym
Javier and Kyma year ago
Here's a landlord tip in case Airbnb fails you again and let's you know AFTER a guest is already in your property, that they haven't paid (and shame on them for allowing this)--accept only cash. Accepting a check from a deadbeat is pretty much begging for it, sorry.
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Jojo
Jojoa year ago
So just an update, Airbnb CX called last night and we agreed to cancel the reservations from their end with no payout for me. The rep also told me they would 'educate' this guy on how to use airbnb system.
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Susan
Susana year ago
bet they don't do anything with the Guest but at least it's resolved.
Liz and Harry
Liz and Harrya year ago
If the reservation was made and to be cancelled the same day for a month in advance I would just let it go and let him have the refund as it likely is not going to impact you at all. You are not loosing anything. Many new guests (jerks or not) don't always get how Airbnb works. For new guests I make sure they understand how it works before I accept a reservation and have a avoided a number a situations. Sometimes they they don't know the difference between a inquiry and a reservation. I just try to avoid those kind of hassles because for me, it's not worth it, but that's just my style. Liz
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Deborah
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-102668
Is this guest trying to intimidate me?
I received a reservation request last night, from this guy who is a founder of some luxury aviation rental company who is coming into town with his colleague to attend a conference. I saw that his airbnb profile is very new, from January 2015 and no reviews. So I asked him to confirm that he has reviewed my house rules which includes no outside visitors allowed. He responded back and said he is ok with it.
This morning he emailed and asked if he could bring a few colleagues to the place for a 'quick meeting'. I told him no, we don't allow that. He then said, please cancel the reservations since this will not work for us. I told him cancellation should come from his end. My cancellation policy is 'strict', so obviously he saw that he would be charged a 50% fee if he cancels. He emailed and said: please waive the cancellation fee. He also said: Airbnb is telling me that you have the option to give us a full refund. Please do so.
Now, I'm quite lenient when it comes to guests canceling, but somehow this guy rubbed me the wrong way. I feel like he is trying to intimidate me, since nowhere in his communication saying that he made a mistake, would I please waive the cxl fee, etc.
What do you think? What would you do?
13 comments•3 likes
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Kelly and Fabian
Joanna
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Susan
Susana year ago
so sorry dude. cancellation policy is strict. no refunds given. cancel the reservation. talk to airbnb if you have an issue.
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Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
Bummer - it sounds like he's trying just trying to get a refund if he can.
When is his reservation? If he cancels it and you are able to book it, you could offer to refund him.
I'd also use "guests/visitors" in your listing just to be crystal clear.
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Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
*sounds like he's just trying
Susan
Susana year ago
the cancellation policy is what it is. i wouldn't offer a refund, only in the case of a dire personal emergency.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Thanks Julie & Eric, When you said to use "guest/visitors", were you referring my house rules, or was it in original post? I edited the listings so many times now so I got lost sometimes and it is very helpful to have a fresh set of eyes
Thanks again.Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
In the house rules - I didn't check your listings.
Let us know how it goes!Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Ah, I see
OK, I should have said 'outside visitors'. Basically my house rules said only those in the original reservations are allowed in the premises and no outside visitors allowed, day or night.Andrew
Andrewa year ago
Yes, he is trying to intimidate you.
No, he is not by any means entitled to an override of your cancellation policy just because he doesn't wish to observe your rules.
However, at this point, the worst case scenario is that the guest decides to cut his losses and proceed with his confirmed reservation. Obviously, he's turned out to be a total douchebag that is going to make you miserable for his whole stay, possibly kick up a fuss and demand a refund later, or leave you a nasty review. With that in mind, you're probably better off taking the path that will maximize his odds of cancelling quickly.
What I would do in this position is persuade him to cancel immediately and offer a refund for any dates that are successfully re-booked. If this doesn't work, my final offer would be reverting to the partial refund that he would get under the Moderate cancellation policy.
And then, I'd switch to the Moderate policy for future reservations, as it leaves you far less likely to get into conflicts like these and still gives you a chance to break even on last-minute cancellations.
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Susan
Susana year ago
I dunno, offering a refund despite the strict policy appears to thwart Host boundaries with regard to cancellations. The Moderate policy is more Guest-friendly, yet that too can be disputed by Guests as well. At the end of the day, I'd stand my ground and offer a discount for any future reservation in lieu of caving into the Guest requested refund.
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
There's also the possibility that the guest could talk Airbnb into a full refund and blocking the dates. Not sure I would want to risk profiting from the strict policy, especially if I could rebook.
Susan
Susana year ago
you can't know if you can rebook unless the dates are open so the Guest must cancel. therefore, have the Guest cancel and offer a discount for future stays as, really, it is the Guest who feels the accommodations are not suited for him, it is not the Host's fault at all and the Host should not be placed in the situation of being intimidated into a refund due to the possibility of a bad review. I'd call airbnb and have them cancel it and deal with the refund issue.
Andrew
Andrewa year ago
I wouldn't offer a discount on future stays if the guest is a pushy, rude, intimidating arsehole! I'd rather he go stay at the Marriott instead.
scott
scotta year ago
I agree with Andrew. The worst outcome would be if the guy opts to stay anyway so he doesn't lose that 50%. He will be awful.
Andrew
Andrewa year ago
Susan- I think that's the most ethically satisfying approach, but I'd still seriously take into consideration the fact that the host now knows that the guest is an undesirable one to have in the house. Armed with that knowledge, any approach that increases the likelihood of him voluntarily canceling is worth considering.
It's true, disputes do come up with the Moderate policy, but I feel I'm in a better negotiating position if the offer seems like a fair compromise between both parties' interests. The Strict policy is a little extreme for my tastes, especially when re-booking is still a likely possibility.
Reply Like 4 likes
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Thank you so much, Susan, Julie & Eric, and Andrew. You all have been very helpful. I also spoke with Daniel from CX and he was very helpful and comforting. I definitely do not want this guest in my house and weird enough, I had that bit of a red flag when he submitted the reservations request last night. For someone who wanted to book for 3 nights with a colleague, he said he wanted the full kitchen, the patio usage, and didn't mind the 2 bedrooms being only separated by a curtain. And after his email this morning, I realized that he wanted to use my place for a business meeting venue for his colleagues/clients.
Again, it is not so much of the refund, it is more my resistance because he is being demanding. So I'm totally with you here, Susan.
However, Andrew brought a very good point. At the end of the day, it is my emotional being that I need to take care of, not a tug of war with this jerk. And Andrew you're right, I don't want him for any future stay either. But if I do change to 'moderate cancellation', what would be the benefit for future?
Reply Like 4 replies
Andrew
Andrewa year ago
It seems to me that the Moderate policy reduces the odds that a cancellation issue will be escalated to the point that you'll receive no refund at all. It gives guests more confidence to book quickly rather than dithering about when you've pre-approved them. And it lowers the stakes when issues like these come up, thereby reducing the potential stress of the situation. The downside is that you don't see compensation for cancellations that are made more than a week ahead - but as a host in a highly demanded market, with the added benefit of a post-cancellation search bump, this is unlikely to cause any losses on your end.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
So just FYI, this reservation is for next month and he just made it last night. So in general, I would have refunded 100% with no problem if he would have requested it. It happened quite a few times. If I were to follow the strict cancellation policy, it would have been 50% charge, the same as if it was moderate. And obviously the guy wanted to have ALL his money back?
Stan & Maggie
Stan & Maggiea year ago
:-( sorry this is happening! I would only offer extra refund if you can book the dates ! As its a month away you can use this as a carrot to get him to cancel, you certainly don't want that kind of energy around. Take comfort in the thought that his new luxury business will suffer due to his attitude!
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Thank you so much, Stan & Maggie! Yes, I was thinking the same - how could you run a successful business with that kind of attitude? Even Steve Jobs was nice to people when he needed them!
scott
scotta year ago
It's only a 3 days booking? I would just refund all the money and move on. Otherwise it's going to drag out and mess with your head.
Reply Like 5 replies•4 likes
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Scott, yes, fully agree. That's why I love this kind of forum, to get others' perspectives. I know logically, that's the right thing to do. I just got caught up emotionally with this.
Fiona
Fionaa year ago
Letting him intimidate you into ignoring your own policy encourages the behavior in him and in everyone he brags to about how successful he was. It seems to me the compromise is he should cancel with Airbnb and you can offer him a refund if you rebook the dates.
Fiona
Fionaa year ago
And then change your cancellation policy going forward to something you'll enforce.
Leah
Leaha year ago
I just get peeved when they have some.sense of entitlement. That irks me!
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Thanks Fiona & Leah. I get cancellation here and there, and I treat that as individual case. Like there is a guy last week who booked the place for 9 days and 2 days prior to check in, his first wife passed away. Fortunately he had travel insurance which he is now checking to see if he could reimbursed. But I told him if not, let me know and I'd refund for as much as I could. But when guests wanted to cancel the next day after they book for whatever reason (wrong dates, mom canceled her visit, etc.), I just normally let them cancel with full refund. And yes, that sense of entitlement just irks me!
scott
scotta year ago
I find the older I get, the less inclined I am to get caught up in stuff. I just let things go and forget about them. Years ago I worked here for a great woman from SF. We were having terrible trouble with a client and I was getting all indignant and things were escalating. I'll always remember her saying to me, 'Scott, I'll fall on a sword, but I'm not falling on a toothpick. Let it go.'
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Jojo
Jojoa year ago
I like that motto. Although jokingly, it is less painful to fall on a toothpick
But yeah, I think that is a good wisdom to have.Leah
Leaha year ago
I think the customer service rep that hit the ball back in your court with the comment that the host can fully refund the guest did you a disservice. They should not have said that and kept that as an unplayed card. Have him cancel.
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Jojo
Jojoa year ago
This is the other email he sent yesterday: Will you refund us in full? airbnb said i should not cancel until we speak with someone from the trip experience team.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
But when I called airbnb and asked, the CX rep said that didn't make any sense since that was between me and the guest. On the other hand, this guy is a new airbnb user, so how would he know about trip experience team when I didn't even know they had such a team?
Leah
Leaha year ago
So my sense is he is trying to skirt the system and play you against CX. Ultimately, CX should have said, This is Jojo's cancellation policy. You will get X amount back minus airbnb service fees which are not refundable. Period. My take on it, as others have read, mentioned, or experienced before, is that airbnb favors the guest and will try to get the guest back his money, hence saying you also have the power to give a full refund. If you don't necessarily want to be dealing with potential refund issues and if money isn't the issue, then I do suggest a moderate policy instead.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
I completely agree with you, Leah. I don't understand why they leave the hosts to fend for ourselves either. They shouldn't have told the guests to contact me. And again, this happened quite a few times before. The difference is, those guests in the past was nice about it and requested if it was possible. Not this guy tho. He was TELLING me to do that.
Salvia
Salviaa year ago
Although I shy away from these kind of conflicts like the devil would shy away from holy water I would consider to stick to the guns. Hosts are already "held hostage" by threatening retaliating reviews and there are misleading rumors and statements that you can bater prices and can avoid the platform to save fees. If we let guests get away too easily with "mistakes" we will have more trouble in the future.
Leah
Leaha year ago
And as a fellow SJ host - don't pawn them onto someone else! Ha! Also, as you are well aware, everyone who is coming to Silicon Valley is some CEO of a startup just like everyone in LA is an actor. They don't mean they are better than you and usually still piss poor. Don't let him take advantage of you for trying to flaunt his "entrepreneur" power status.
Reply Like 8 replies•2 likes
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
wonder why "fellow" and "San Jose" and "Host" show up in the filter as an email address. the filters are so weird...
Leah
Leaha year ago
No kidding!
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Oh Leah, you're completely right. And with that said, I have another story. This is why I am screening my guests even more carefully now. So last month, I got a last minute reservations request for 2 nights. The guy is a stanford grad,and a startup founder. his self description is a 'jetsetter', Once I accepted, I got an email from airbnb, saying payment was rejected. At this point he already had my complete address, direction how to get to the unit, and a keyless code (later on I changed this and not giving out code until just before arrival). The guy called me, assured me it was just a mistake since he accidentally booked 2 places at the same time, but he wanted to stay at mine. He gave me his linked in profile and offered to paypal in case there is still a problem with airbnb payment. True enough, paypal payment was made. The next day, he called and asked to extend for another night and if he should alter the reservations on airbnb. Thinking that I already got the paypal payment, I said I'd just refund you the difference once payment cleared. Long story short, on the morning he was supposed to check out, his paypal payment was canceled, and when I went to the airbnb messages, everything has been deleted by airbnb with a red alert note saying I should cease all communication with the guest. I was at a family's home at this time, and we drove to the place right away and went in and saw him still sleeping! Anyway, he finally woke up and got up, eyes blood shot and I was feeling a bit guilty at this point since the guy was so young and so nice and very polite. He profusely apologized for everything and he immediately wrote me a business check. I deposited the check right away on my mobile banking apps. And he left shortly after. Money was in my bank the next day, but 3 days later I saw that it was credited back for bad check (whatever term they used). And the day after, I got $12 penalty for that bad check. Even until now, I'm still confused with the guy. He did go to stanford - his name was on stanford page. And he did have the startup: Matching musician to music industry. So it is like Airbnb for us, or uber for taxis, but this is for musician. Why would he do this kind of petty crime? BUT, lesson learned. And if you have any slightest red flag with potential or current guests, always reply from your mailbox, not the airbnb dashboard since if anything goes wrong, they would delete all the messages history and you have nothing in your hand!
Leah
Leaha year ago
That is awful! If they are some startup exec but are using airbnb, means they haven't "made it" yet, just as an actor still waiting tables.
Susan
Susana year ago
identity fraud, scamming etc. is blind to income, education and wealth.... in other words, being nice and going to Stanford doesn't rule out bounced checks, scams and fraud. As a certified fraud examiner, what one needs to learn is how to profile Guests from their initial inquiry, to the reason for their stay, to how many guests, age etc. A Host's antennae must be refined enough that one doesn't over-ride the facts of the Guest by placing their own perception on the person, in other words, don't read anything into anything, if the guest gives the Host a "gut feeling" that something's odd, the facts don't match up, or whatever, just politely decline and move on. The key to getting "good" guests is a highly refined, inclusive listing description as well as that refined sense of whether the potential guest is on the up and up. my .02
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Susan, trust me, I learned lots more about people now than ever in my life before
I keep telling myself now: Look at the evidence, don't listen to what they say. I have been declining more guests now and although sometimes I feel that I probably make a mistake by doing so, it still is a peace of mind at the end of the day.Jojo
Jojoa year ago
If they are some startup exec but are using airbnb, means they haven't "made it" yet, just as an actor still waiting tables. Not necessarily. I had this exec who rented our family house (the entire house) before, for a month and half. He really is a top exec for a large/known company (and a white house fellow). He was doing that to check out the neighborhood and ended up buying a place a few blocks away.
Christel
Christela year ago
Emails and urls. Take care with words (email hidden). Also take care with sentences starting with a two letter word, particularly if you forget the space after the full stop. This website might see this as a top level domain, like c o m, a t, or c a.
Danny
Dannya year ago
ANY kind of payment outside the AoirBnB system will ultimately get you into trouble, not worth it.
Reply Like 7 replies•2 likes
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
I know Danny, but Airbnb didn't give any option either. They said I could cancel with the guest, however the guest has already checked in at that point. That's why I don't understand why their payment system has such a huge flaw. Guests shouldn't be able to submit reservations when the credit card is invalid/expired. And this happened to me a few times, although in most cases it sorted itself out. That's why I didn't worry to much when I had that initial experience with that guy.
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
HUGE flaw - I posted about it a few days ago and switched my calendar settings for two days advance notice in an effort to avoid this in the future.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Exactly! When I make an online purchase with an invalid credit card, the transaction wouldn't go thru. So why can't Airbnb use the same system?
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
I think they do, but apparently they retry for up to 48 hours (?) and then even after the guest pays via PayPal when they receive the email from Airbnb, it requires some manual intervention to send the email notifying the hosts that the payment has been made. It's pretty ridiculous.
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Do NOT accept paypal payment or a check (unless it is a cashier check) for last minute reservations, as it takes a few days to clear. And that's what happened with that startup/stanford guy.
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
Right - Airbnb emailed him a way to PayPal to them at the same time they emailed me. Before I knew he'd paid them via PayPal, I told him we'd need to get it settled in cash by 8 PM the night they checked in (I got the email about the payment not going through from Airbnb at 6 PM that night). Here's the email: www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-101553
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
Wow, TWO days! That is ridiculous!! It happened to me a few times, but definitely not 2 days, unless I didn't notice since it was for reservations months away. I received similar emails as well, but in mine, it says something about hosts are not allowed to receive any cash from guest, or otherwise the listing will be removed. This was when the guest was already staying with me!
Javier and Kym
Javier and Kyma year ago
Here's a landlord tip in case Airbnb fails you again and let's you know AFTER a guest is already in your property, that they haven't paid (and shame on them for allowing this)--accept only cash. Accepting a check from a deadbeat is pretty much begging for it, sorry.
Reply Like 2 likes
Jojo
Jojoa year ago
So just an update, Airbnb CX called last night and we agreed to cancel the reservations from their end with no payout for me. The rep also told me they would 'educate' this guy on how to use airbnb system.
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like
Susan
Susana year ago
bet they don't do anything with the Guest but at least it's resolved.
Liz and Harry
Liz and Harrya year ago
If the reservation was made and to be cancelled the same day for a month in advance I would just let it go and let him have the refund as it likely is not going to impact you at all. You are not loosing anything. Many new guests (jerks or not) don't always get how Airbnb works. For new guests I make sure they understand how it works before I accept a reservation and have a avoided a number a situations. Sometimes they they don't know the difference between a inquiry and a reservation. I just try to avoid those kind of hassles because for me, it's not worth it, but that's just my style. Liz
Reply Like 1 like
Deborah