Post by High Priestess on May 28, 2016 19:41:03 GMT
Andrew shared on New Hosts Forum Feb 2014
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-91548
Minor Transgression
So it's time for me to review a recent guest who was mostly perfectly fine - quiet, tidy, polite, and out for most of the day. But one little thing that happened on his checkout day gives me pause. I was in my own bed, still asleep, and the guest gently knocked on the bedroom door and - before I had a chance to respond - he opened the door, stood in the doorway and requested a late checkout (by no means averting his eyes).
To be fair, I hadn't included a House Rule about the Hosts' bedroom being off-limits, as to the best of my knowledge no guest has ever gone in there uninvited before. And seeing as how we are both gay men on cordial terms, the creepy factor is not as high as if he'd walked into the room of a single woman or a child. And what's more, I wouldn't have been bothered one bit if we had gotten to know each other more personally (or if he had been my 'type'). But all that said, I was still left with the feeling that the guy had an odd sense of boundaries and could've been more respectful of my privacy.
Now I have to decide whether to take note of this in his review (which could be potentially very embarrassing for him) or just leave the classic neutral review. I'm leaning more toward the latter. But first I want to poll all you other hosts - is a minor transgression like this something you would want to be informed about when considering an inquiry from this guest? Or should I just take it as a lesson in articulating my boundaries more clearly?
21 comments•1 like
Following
Like
Suzanne
Delete
Hide
Shirley
Shirley2 years ago
I would choose the latter and offer future guests a suggestion the best way to 'speak' with you when you are in your private space. I had a host call at 7:45 a.m. and come to the door at 8:00 a.m. for a social visit. My husband and I were in bed hoping to sleep in after arriving late the day before. Some people just have no common sense.
Reply Like 1 reply•4 likes Delete
Jenny
Jenny2 years ago
I had locks put on all my doors before I opened my home. My spaces are locked off from guests. This seems like the natural way to go. While some spaces of my home are open to guests, others including my bedroom are locked at night when I am in there and when I leave the house.
Maggie
Maggie2 years ago
Wow - that behavior of guest was weird!! This may help in future - I tell my guests if they need anything and I am not in sight to text me - I have a big property so I am aware of this possible difficulty. You could try that. Sorry he did that - uncomfortable.
Reply Like 1 like Delete
Jeannette
Jeannette2 years ago
I'd definitely want to know about this as a host -- it's so out of bounds that it does not require being in House Rules. Maybe you can do a classic 1. good points of the stay 2. (tactful way of noting what happened, noting Hosts may want to make boundaries extra clear with this guest). 3. close with good points.
Reply Like 3 likes Delete
Evelyn
Evelyn2 years ago
I'll say the latter just and oversight. It this something you want to mention in private to him?
At least he knocked your door. I have learned to keep my door locked because of that reason. I had a little girl open my door in the middle of the night. Yeah scared both of us.
I have a very old house(120 years old) and I only have a latch in my room, it closes while I'm inside. My current guest opened my bedroom door while I wasn't home. To see what was behind that door. Yes he told me.
Reply Like 3 replies•3 likes Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
I wonder how much this happens and we never find out! Many years ago I caught a flatmate in my room sniffing my laundry - no telling what else I didn't catch. Since then, I've never kept anything particularly interesting or personal in my bedroom.
Regina
Regina2 years ago
Oh wow. That's hilarious!
Evelyn
Evelyn2 years ago
Sniffing your laundry.. good one. I caught a guest opening doors (in the kitchen). I was can I help you? all she said I wanted to know what was behind the door. Curious people
Elizabeth
Elizabeth2 years ago
Oh wow. Way too weird. Lucky my rental is a separate space. I could never ever share the same space with a "stranger."
Reply Like 1 like Delete
Deborah
Deborah2 years ago
If this happened to me, I would not mention it in a public review, but I would mention privately to the guest that it is not appropriate to do this. I would also put either a lock or latch on my bedroom door, so that I could at least lock it from the inside when I am in there. Feeling safe from not being intruded upon in my private space is more important to me than to many people -- I would guess there is a range of discomfort among hosts for this type of thing -- and I would never rely upon the common sense or good boundaries of guests in this regard, I would make sure there is a concrete way of creating that boundary -- eg some type of lock.
I would only mention this type of thing in a public review if the guest did it more than once after being asked not to do this, or if there were other related "boundary" issues with the guest.
Reply Like 1 reply•5 likes Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
Thanks Deborah! I think you're right that this is a helpful distinction. The guest was given no reason to believe he'd done anything wrong, and it wasn't part of a recurrent pattern of issues.
Elizabeth
Elizabeth2 years ago
You also may want to hang a nicely framed sign on your door saying "PRIVATE. NO ACCESS BY GUESTS."
Reply Like 3 replies•3 likes Delete
Nonya
Nonya2 years ago
web restaurants sell 'private property keep out' signs to stick on your door. lol. Also, chalk board paint on your door (come in white and black)...veryyyy helpful to post signs on
Nonya
Nonya2 years ago
webstaurantstore (don't forget to add the dot com)
Maggie
Maggie2 years ago
You can also buy Private signs at Home Depot, but I think a cute chalk board attached to the door with a 3m hook would look better.
Kelly and Fabian
Kelly and Fabian2 years ago
I am so getting a lock on my door now!
Reply Like 2 likes Delete
Leah
Leah2 years ago
Wow, this sounds like something my son did on me
I immediately thought I need to get a lock!
Reply Like Delete
Leah
Leah2 years ago
The turning point for me is that this guest opened the door. Why do that? A guest should not open the front door either when they are on the porch either so what makes him think it would be ok to bust in on your bedroom. Did he seem to care or want to sit bedside and chat?
Reply Like 1 reply Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
I agree. It made me wonder - if I hadn't been there, would he have gone on in and looked around? There wasn't any other behavior to indicate a lack of respect or decency so I had to give the benefit of the doubt.
Nicole
Nicole2 years ago
I vote the latter as well. A flip side of the coin is your excellent hosting abilities made him overly comfortable in your home
Reply Like 2 likes Delete
Tania & Andrew
Tania & Andrew2 years ago
Definitely neutral review and private feedback on your thoughts about privacy
Reply Like 2 likes Delete
Fiona
Fiona2 years ago
That would have made me very uncomfortable. Coming to the door but especially opening it without waiting for an invitation. I wouldn't mention it publicly unless earlier hosts have mentioned boundary issues in their reviews but I would definitely mention it in comments to your guest and in the private comments to Airbnb.
Reply Like 1 like Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
Thank you to everyone for weighing in here! In the end, I was persuaded by the consensus to deal with it gently in the private feedback, especially because I'd given the guest no way to know that he'd crossed a line and it wasn't a recurrent problem.
I do think locks on all the bedroom (and of course bathroom) doors are necessary. My room does lock from the inside, but since I share it with my husband - who is much earlier to bed and to rise than I am - we seldom ever use it. I think now I'll add to the House Rules that "guests are welcome to visit all areas of the apartment with the exception of the hosts' bedroom" and tell guests during check-in that if they have any questions and don't see me, to just send a message. Also, since this particular situation was caused by a guest wanting a late checkout, I'm going to start confirming the checkout plans upon arrival rather than waiting until the last night of the stay to ask. All lessons learned!
Thanks again to all of you for your support.
Reply Like 1 reply•2 likes Delete
Maggie
Maggie2 years ago
I like your idea of confirming check out time when guests arrive, Andrew - that is an area that can cause me to sit around waiting to say goodbye for ages. I will try that today with my guest.
Sheryl
Sheryl 2 years ago
I can understand your consternation, Andrew! It is so odd to see, reported by hosts, the things that become issues that one would never imagine.
I would say, first of all, that this was more likely a rare case than an occurrence you can expect to be repeated by future guests. I think it is a rare person who does not know that a person's bedroom is private. (Someone like the "sniffer" just doesn't care about others' privacy and probably takes pleasure in invading it. But that is an entirely different conversation!) I think that very few guests will need to be told, by way of the house rules, not to come into your bedroom.
In my experience, the best way to prevent someone from coming in is to put a lock on the door. For the convenience ot those who live in the household, a keyless lock will probably be best. I consider the lock on my door to protect me and my guests. It protects me from intrusion in my personal space. It protects guests from any accusation of wrongdoing because, if they don't have access to my personal belongings and there's no evidence of a break-in, they won't be suspects if anything goes missing.
It is nice that you weren't embarrassed or made very uncomfortable by the intrusion but, in a variety of other scenarios, you might have been. I think this is a serious enough transgression to warrant mention both in the public review and the private comments. I think a mention that he "will be an ideal guest in a home where the host's private areas are clearly defined" is fair. And, in the private comments, you can explain that most people consider their bedrooms private and he should not enter unless told to.
I have weighed and balanced consideration of whether this person should have his ability to book a room in the future impacted and how important it would be to me, as a host, to know that someone might walk into my bedroom. While I hate for someone young or inexperienced to be "punished" for their ignorance, I would not want that person as a guest and would appreciate knowing, in advance, that they need to be told what is private and what is shared.
Reply Like 1 like Delete
Jeannette
Jeannette2 years ago
I agree with Sheryl. I think privately telling the person about the transgression doesn't work here, there's something seriously amiss in his boundaries, that would ideally be in the public review.
Something like this no host should have to deal with.
Reply Like Delete
Serafina
Serafina2 years ago
Nobody should be blindsided by a public review, in my opinion. It's basic human courtesy. If I haven't addressed a problem when a guest is still here, I'd leave it as private feedback rather than public.
Reply Like 1 reply Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
That is a very good point. I would also be distressed if a guest's review complained about a problem I hadn't been made aware of or given an opportunity to fix.
Fleur, Dan and kids
Fleur, Dan and kids2 years ago
Andrew can I ask what nationality he was? Maybe it was cultural?
Reply Like 1 reply Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
He was from Spain. I've stayed with several hosts in Spain, and I'd say all of them were more conservative and restrictive with their boundaries than we are. One in particular had a house rule that made me laugh - "All guests must be fully clothed when exiting the bedroom."
Sheryl
Sheryl 2 years ago
Generally, I agree with not "blindsiding" a guest publicly with something that was not mentioned in private.. My suggestion that comment be made in both the public and private reviews assumed that you spoke with the guest about the impropriety of coming into your bedroom when it happened. Or that your look of surprise conveyed your opinion!
But this is still a hard one for me. It's such a violation of privacy and decorum that it seems worth mentioning whether or not you talked with him about it at the time.
But I also know that it's my personal sensibility that makes privacy such an issue for me. Privacy in the one space in my house that is off-limits to guests is very important to me. Funny, because my guests are all short term, I don't get upset with lights left on (I just turn them off) or guests who eat so much that I have to replenish what I think are reasonable amounts of food or even noise because I can sleep through most anything. And I don't care how many showers they take or whether I have to resort the trash because they didn't separate the recyclables. But I do care whether they walk into my bedroom!
It does really help to hear other opinions. Helps me bring some balance to my perspective.
One more thing - - -Although it is a frequent question here on the boards, I always cringe when someone asks "Could it be a cultural thing?" Of course, anything could. But the presumption that because someone of a certain race, ethnicity or culture does something that it is cultural is subject to great inaccuracy. There are lots of things I do that are cultural. And for me that is a broad reference that is not just about me being American. My culture includes my upbringing in an African American family and community colored by my experience living in a midwestern state with city amenities and a country "heart". It is informed by my predominantly white Catholic high school + historically black college educational experiences. I don't like for anyone to presume that they can tell anything about me by what they presume my "culture" is. For that reason, I am cautious to presume, without broader reference, that anything I see is "cultural" rather than individual. If someone is intimately familiar with a culture because they are of that culture or have lived in it for an extended time, perhaps they can speak with knowledge. Other than that, I think we have to be very careful.
Reply Like 2 likes Delete
Deborah
Deborah2 years ago
Sometimes a host may guess that something is "cultural" when they experience people from a certain part of the world doing something, that others from other parts of the world don't do.
For instance, it has only been my guests from Europe who arrive, open my nicely made bed, patiently remove the flat sheet from between the fitted sheet and the duvet, carefully fold up this flat sheet, and place it on the dresser or somewhere out of the way, and never touch it again.
My guess that this is cultural, has been echoed by several posts on this issue, where forum members have stated that this it is customary in Europe not to use a flat sheet.
Reply Like Delete
Sheryl
Sheryl 2 years ago
I get it, Deborah. I understand when a pattern is observed that it can indicate a cultural behavior.
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-91548
Minor Transgression
So it's time for me to review a recent guest who was mostly perfectly fine - quiet, tidy, polite, and out for most of the day. But one little thing that happened on his checkout day gives me pause. I was in my own bed, still asleep, and the guest gently knocked on the bedroom door and - before I had a chance to respond - he opened the door, stood in the doorway and requested a late checkout (by no means averting his eyes).
To be fair, I hadn't included a House Rule about the Hosts' bedroom being off-limits, as to the best of my knowledge no guest has ever gone in there uninvited before. And seeing as how we are both gay men on cordial terms, the creepy factor is not as high as if he'd walked into the room of a single woman or a child. And what's more, I wouldn't have been bothered one bit if we had gotten to know each other more personally (or if he had been my 'type'). But all that said, I was still left with the feeling that the guy had an odd sense of boundaries and could've been more respectful of my privacy.
Now I have to decide whether to take note of this in his review (which could be potentially very embarrassing for him) or just leave the classic neutral review. I'm leaning more toward the latter. But first I want to poll all you other hosts - is a minor transgression like this something you would want to be informed about when considering an inquiry from this guest? Or should I just take it as a lesson in articulating my boundaries more clearly?
21 comments•1 like
Following
Like
Suzanne
Delete
Hide
Shirley
Shirley2 years ago
I would choose the latter and offer future guests a suggestion the best way to 'speak' with you when you are in your private space. I had a host call at 7:45 a.m. and come to the door at 8:00 a.m. for a social visit. My husband and I were in bed hoping to sleep in after arriving late the day before. Some people just have no common sense.
Reply Like 1 reply•4 likes Delete
Jenny
Jenny2 years ago
I had locks put on all my doors before I opened my home. My spaces are locked off from guests. This seems like the natural way to go. While some spaces of my home are open to guests, others including my bedroom are locked at night when I am in there and when I leave the house.
Maggie
Maggie2 years ago
Wow - that behavior of guest was weird!! This may help in future - I tell my guests if they need anything and I am not in sight to text me - I have a big property so I am aware of this possible difficulty. You could try that. Sorry he did that - uncomfortable.
Reply Like 1 like Delete
Jeannette
Jeannette2 years ago
I'd definitely want to know about this as a host -- it's so out of bounds that it does not require being in House Rules. Maybe you can do a classic 1. good points of the stay 2. (tactful way of noting what happened, noting Hosts may want to make boundaries extra clear with this guest). 3. close with good points.
Reply Like 3 likes Delete
Evelyn
Evelyn2 years ago
I'll say the latter just and oversight. It this something you want to mention in private to him?
At least he knocked your door. I have learned to keep my door locked because of that reason. I had a little girl open my door in the middle of the night. Yeah scared both of us.
I have a very old house(120 years old) and I only have a latch in my room, it closes while I'm inside. My current guest opened my bedroom door while I wasn't home. To see what was behind that door. Yes he told me.
Reply Like 3 replies•3 likes Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
I wonder how much this happens and we never find out! Many years ago I caught a flatmate in my room sniffing my laundry - no telling what else I didn't catch. Since then, I've never kept anything particularly interesting or personal in my bedroom.
Regina
Regina2 years ago
Oh wow. That's hilarious!
Evelyn
Evelyn2 years ago
Sniffing your laundry.. good one. I caught a guest opening doors (in the kitchen). I was can I help you? all she said I wanted to know what was behind the door. Curious people
Elizabeth
Elizabeth2 years ago
Oh wow. Way too weird. Lucky my rental is a separate space. I could never ever share the same space with a "stranger."
Reply Like 1 like Delete
Deborah
Deborah2 years ago
If this happened to me, I would not mention it in a public review, but I would mention privately to the guest that it is not appropriate to do this. I would also put either a lock or latch on my bedroom door, so that I could at least lock it from the inside when I am in there. Feeling safe from not being intruded upon in my private space is more important to me than to many people -- I would guess there is a range of discomfort among hosts for this type of thing -- and I would never rely upon the common sense or good boundaries of guests in this regard, I would make sure there is a concrete way of creating that boundary -- eg some type of lock.
I would only mention this type of thing in a public review if the guest did it more than once after being asked not to do this, or if there were other related "boundary" issues with the guest.
Reply Like 1 reply•5 likes Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
Thanks Deborah! I think you're right that this is a helpful distinction. The guest was given no reason to believe he'd done anything wrong, and it wasn't part of a recurrent pattern of issues.
Elizabeth
Elizabeth2 years ago
You also may want to hang a nicely framed sign on your door saying "PRIVATE. NO ACCESS BY GUESTS."
Reply Like 3 replies•3 likes Delete
Nonya
Nonya2 years ago
web restaurants sell 'private property keep out' signs to stick on your door. lol. Also, chalk board paint on your door (come in white and black)...veryyyy helpful to post signs on
Nonya
Nonya2 years ago
webstaurantstore (don't forget to add the dot com)
Maggie
Maggie2 years ago
You can also buy Private signs at Home Depot, but I think a cute chalk board attached to the door with a 3m hook would look better.
Kelly and Fabian
Kelly and Fabian2 years ago
I am so getting a lock on my door now!
Reply Like 2 likes Delete
Leah
Leah2 years ago
Wow, this sounds like something my son did on me
I immediately thought I need to get a lock!Reply Like Delete
Leah
Leah2 years ago
The turning point for me is that this guest opened the door. Why do that? A guest should not open the front door either when they are on the porch either so what makes him think it would be ok to bust in on your bedroom. Did he seem to care or want to sit bedside and chat?
Reply Like 1 reply Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
I agree. It made me wonder - if I hadn't been there, would he have gone on in and looked around? There wasn't any other behavior to indicate a lack of respect or decency so I had to give the benefit of the doubt.
Nicole
Nicole2 years ago
I vote the latter as well. A flip side of the coin is your excellent hosting abilities made him overly comfortable in your home
Reply Like 2 likes Delete
Tania & Andrew
Tania & Andrew2 years ago
Definitely neutral review and private feedback on your thoughts about privacy
Reply Like 2 likes Delete
Fiona
Fiona2 years ago
That would have made me very uncomfortable. Coming to the door but especially opening it without waiting for an invitation. I wouldn't mention it publicly unless earlier hosts have mentioned boundary issues in their reviews but I would definitely mention it in comments to your guest and in the private comments to Airbnb.
Reply Like 1 like Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
Thank you to everyone for weighing in here! In the end, I was persuaded by the consensus to deal with it gently in the private feedback, especially because I'd given the guest no way to know that he'd crossed a line and it wasn't a recurrent problem.
I do think locks on all the bedroom (and of course bathroom) doors are necessary. My room does lock from the inside, but since I share it with my husband - who is much earlier to bed and to rise than I am - we seldom ever use it. I think now I'll add to the House Rules that "guests are welcome to visit all areas of the apartment with the exception of the hosts' bedroom" and tell guests during check-in that if they have any questions and don't see me, to just send a message. Also, since this particular situation was caused by a guest wanting a late checkout, I'm going to start confirming the checkout plans upon arrival rather than waiting until the last night of the stay to ask. All lessons learned!
Thanks again to all of you for your support.
Reply Like 1 reply•2 likes Delete
Maggie
Maggie2 years ago
I like your idea of confirming check out time when guests arrive, Andrew - that is an area that can cause me to sit around waiting to say goodbye for ages. I will try that today with my guest.
Sheryl
Sheryl 2 years ago
I can understand your consternation, Andrew! It is so odd to see, reported by hosts, the things that become issues that one would never imagine.
I would say, first of all, that this was more likely a rare case than an occurrence you can expect to be repeated by future guests. I think it is a rare person who does not know that a person's bedroom is private. (Someone like the "sniffer" just doesn't care about others' privacy and probably takes pleasure in invading it. But that is an entirely different conversation!) I think that very few guests will need to be told, by way of the house rules, not to come into your bedroom.
In my experience, the best way to prevent someone from coming in is to put a lock on the door. For the convenience ot those who live in the household, a keyless lock will probably be best. I consider the lock on my door to protect me and my guests. It protects me from intrusion in my personal space. It protects guests from any accusation of wrongdoing because, if they don't have access to my personal belongings and there's no evidence of a break-in, they won't be suspects if anything goes missing.
It is nice that you weren't embarrassed or made very uncomfortable by the intrusion but, in a variety of other scenarios, you might have been. I think this is a serious enough transgression to warrant mention both in the public review and the private comments. I think a mention that he "will be an ideal guest in a home where the host's private areas are clearly defined" is fair. And, in the private comments, you can explain that most people consider their bedrooms private and he should not enter unless told to.
I have weighed and balanced consideration of whether this person should have his ability to book a room in the future impacted and how important it would be to me, as a host, to know that someone might walk into my bedroom. While I hate for someone young or inexperienced to be "punished" for their ignorance, I would not want that person as a guest and would appreciate knowing, in advance, that they need to be told what is private and what is shared.
Reply Like 1 like Delete
Jeannette
Jeannette2 years ago
I agree with Sheryl. I think privately telling the person about the transgression doesn't work here, there's something seriously amiss in his boundaries, that would ideally be in the public review.
Something like this no host should have to deal with.
Reply Like Delete
Serafina
Serafina2 years ago
Nobody should be blindsided by a public review, in my opinion. It's basic human courtesy. If I haven't addressed a problem when a guest is still here, I'd leave it as private feedback rather than public.
Reply Like 1 reply Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
That is a very good point. I would also be distressed if a guest's review complained about a problem I hadn't been made aware of or given an opportunity to fix.
Fleur, Dan and kids
Fleur, Dan and kids2 years ago
Andrew can I ask what nationality he was? Maybe it was cultural?
Reply Like 1 reply Delete
Andrew
Andrew2 years ago
He was from Spain. I've stayed with several hosts in Spain, and I'd say all of them were more conservative and restrictive with their boundaries than we are. One in particular had a house rule that made me laugh - "All guests must be fully clothed when exiting the bedroom."
Sheryl
Sheryl 2 years ago
Generally, I agree with not "blindsiding" a guest publicly with something that was not mentioned in private.. My suggestion that comment be made in both the public and private reviews assumed that you spoke with the guest about the impropriety of coming into your bedroom when it happened. Or that your look of surprise conveyed your opinion!
But this is still a hard one for me. It's such a violation of privacy and decorum that it seems worth mentioning whether or not you talked with him about it at the time.
But I also know that it's my personal sensibility that makes privacy such an issue for me. Privacy in the one space in my house that is off-limits to guests is very important to me. Funny, because my guests are all short term, I don't get upset with lights left on (I just turn them off) or guests who eat so much that I have to replenish what I think are reasonable amounts of food or even noise because I can sleep through most anything. And I don't care how many showers they take or whether I have to resort the trash because they didn't separate the recyclables. But I do care whether they walk into my bedroom!
It does really help to hear other opinions. Helps me bring some balance to my perspective.
One more thing - - -Although it is a frequent question here on the boards, I always cringe when someone asks "Could it be a cultural thing?" Of course, anything could. But the presumption that because someone of a certain race, ethnicity or culture does something that it is cultural is subject to great inaccuracy. There are lots of things I do that are cultural. And for me that is a broad reference that is not just about me being American. My culture includes my upbringing in an African American family and community colored by my experience living in a midwestern state with city amenities and a country "heart". It is informed by my predominantly white Catholic high school + historically black college educational experiences. I don't like for anyone to presume that they can tell anything about me by what they presume my "culture" is. For that reason, I am cautious to presume, without broader reference, that anything I see is "cultural" rather than individual. If someone is intimately familiar with a culture because they are of that culture or have lived in it for an extended time, perhaps they can speak with knowledge. Other than that, I think we have to be very careful.
Reply Like 2 likes Delete
Deborah
Deborah2 years ago
Sometimes a host may guess that something is "cultural" when they experience people from a certain part of the world doing something, that others from other parts of the world don't do.
For instance, it has only been my guests from Europe who arrive, open my nicely made bed, patiently remove the flat sheet from between the fitted sheet and the duvet, carefully fold up this flat sheet, and place it on the dresser or somewhere out of the way, and never touch it again.
My guess that this is cultural, has been echoed by several posts on this issue, where forum members have stated that this it is customary in Europe not to use a flat sheet.
Reply Like Delete
Sheryl
Sheryl 2 years ago
I get it, Deborah. I understand when a pattern is observed that it can indicate a cultural behavior.