Post by High Priestess on Mar 28, 2016 21:34:01 GMT
See the discussion on the Airbnb Community Center:
community.airbnb.com/t5/New-to-Hosting/unexpected-unwanted-extra-guests/td-p/49579
Margaret
Margaret
unexpected, unwanted extra guests
I have two bedrooms listed with beds for two people in each. I do not want extra people in either room. Yet I had a guest book 4 adults but show up with 5.
When I checked my listing, it showed no charge for extra guests. NOT what I want it to say. But I had checked nothing for extra guests because I did not want any.
How can I handle this in the future?
Thanks.
Margaret
Donna
Margaret, unfortunately, the 'extra charge' option is misleading.
There's a way to get rid of the problem. (A strategy I learned from one of the more experienced hosts here.)
In your settings, enter an extremely high price into the extra guests charge box (e.g. $250).
Save the change.
Next time you look at your listing page, you'll note that the extra guest box has disappeared.
To reinforce this, you could mention in your House Rules - which could stand to be made more comprehensive and firm - and elsewhere in the listing that the number of guests is limited to 4. Maybe add that if an attempt is made to bring in an additional and undisclosed guest, AirBnB will be notified and the booking will be cancelled.
Sallie
We had a booking request from a (limited english) korean woman for 1 person, two nights in our apartment which sleeps two comfortably and four snugly. She admitted, after I had accepted the booking, that she wanted a holiday with her family. When I asked her how many people, she vaguely said maybe 2 others for one night. She accepted the extra cost for 2 additional people for two nights, but then turned up with another 2 people on top of the four and said they'd all only be staying for one night and were prepared to trade the extra guests for the extra night's tariff. We're new to airbnb, so are unsure how to handle a situation like this. Knowing that it was within our rights to refuse the additional guests, but not wanting to be inhospitable or ungracious, we allowed them to stay. Can someone please advise me on how to handle the review process in this case? We've accomodated them but feel that the experience has left a bitter taste. We've ony had positive experiences until now.
Robin
Sallie .....Yeah Sallie, you are going to get this every now and then! A lot of people think they are booking a 'space'.......not as a person number, so they don't place much importance on how many people utilise this 'space'!! Maybe they are trying to get something on the cheap....maybe not, but you have to let it go! It's much like guests travelling with infant children! They consider a child more as an item which just happens to be with them....like a suitcase, rather than an additional guest!!
On many occasions when I receive a booking, it is for 'One' person.....although they do say that there will be another in tow, and we just accept that because, the amount of room reparation is the same regardless of whether it is one or two people. I have a cot and I have even put in a sofa bed recently to accommodate more than two, but I don't make any adjustment to the price....the cottage is utilised, we are being paid, and that's that!
Sallie, handle the review process on how they treated your accommodation....not on the number of them! Remember, what you write will stay with you for as long as you host. Think carefully about your reviews because many people, both hosts and guests, will judge you by the words you choose. Before you write that review, make yourself a cup of coffee and leave that 'bitter taste' in the kitchen!!! Good luck.....
I sincerely hope Sallie this post is not seen by others as sanctimonious, in-accurate, or self congratulatory!...It is purely offered to try and help you with the question you have raised!.....Rob
Lisa
Robin I don't recall @ Sallie asking you what's ok for you and your listing. This is her listng and She is clearly bothered by the fact that this guest booked for 1 and turned up with 6. The guest fully knowing she was tueningup with a gaggle of people she didnt want to pay for. Just because you don't care what people do in your space, I guarantee you that it's NOT OK with a helluva lot of hosts. Of all of the hosts I know globally, yeah it's not OK for any of them. And 6 people use heck of a lot more utilities and make much more mess than 1 guest!
Sallie, I'm sorry you were put in such an uncomfortable position. It's very important to highlight what the guest did to warn other hosts. If the leave the place in good condition and nothing is damaged, you could start off with something like 'Guest x was tidy and left the flat in good condition, however, she turned up with 5 additional undisclosed guests which exceeded our maximum and wasn't appreciated.' If they nleft the place in crap condition, then fire away with a negative. Review all around. I guarantee that if they tried this with a host that has been hosting long term they would have been turned away. It's very important to let other hosts know via a review.
To the OP and Sallie, if you add it very clearly in your description and house rules that only registered guests will be granted access into the apartmet. If undisclosed guests attempt to enter witout payment(or if exceeds your maximum) that the reservation will be terminated immediately and no refund given. Please bear in mind that a lot of hosts space share in their own homes and having a random undisclosed stranger enter would be terrifying to some hosts. Especially single females living alone. There's also the little tidbit about host guarantee not extending to non registered guests, so if non registered guest cause damage you're on your own.
If you clearly state it in your rules, Airbnb will stand behind you all the way. I know lots of hosts that have exercised denied access to nonregistered guests and they still got paid and Airbnb stood behind them.
It's useful to have a good initial email chat and ask them outright on the first message if it is just 1 (or 2,3) whatever they're requesting. And they will confirm one way or admit there's more people. Make the amendment to reservation and have them accept. Or they can decline and go somewhere else.
Best of luck!
Raymond & Elaine
@margaret Hi, you do not have to accept this kind of behaviour in your home. I have this in my house rules :
* For liability reasons, guests may not bring any visitors or any others to our home at any time, for any length of time. Only those individuals who are registered guests may enter the premises.
Also ask clearly on airbnb messages how many guests will be arriving and their names .
I like Donna's idea of putting an astonomical price on extra guests. This should work and no extra people will be added. Should they turn up change the reservation , add the extra 200$ per person , either they accept to pay or they will not be allowed to enter. I agree with what Lisa wrote. Also don't think you have to accept children as if they were extra luggage if you don't want to. They are not. They can be noisy and upset other guests, your family, neighbours , they break things and damage items more often than adults. If you wish to accomodate children make sure your home is safe, make sure they are under the responsibility of their parents at all times (put into your house rules)add a security deposit to cover dammage and add the extra fee. It's your home, your rules. You don't have to put up with anything.see some useful tips here
Ana
I had a situation like that once and the guest said "whatever, it makes no difference to you".
I obviously got as mad as you are right now, so to avoid this one of my house rules is "no third parties are allowed" or something like that.
Also I always ask the guests to confirm the dates and how many people are coming over. I make sure I dont sound rude by saying "you are willing to stay from the day x to the day z and there is only x people coming over, right?"
Some people are not familiar with the website so they dont select the number of guests. Others they simply dont care. When it gets close th the check in date, I ask them everybody's full name and passport number so I can authorize their entrance in the building.
Peter
I send out an email ahead of a visit to ask for things like cell no, their arrival times and so on. I also ask them to confirm with me if they will be requiring anything other than a standard double bed. It sorts out the numbers game and also the bookings for 2 which aren't for a couple but looked remarkably like it from the booking information.
Carrie
Margaret - your listing clearly states that it acommodates four. Nothing else is needed. No extra person charge, no fine, no nothing. You listing acommodates 4. Period.
You have every right to refuse entry to the party (or at least to any number of them over four) and every right to kick them out as soon as you find out that more people are there that were booked.
Maxine
Margaret The high extra per person charge, where the maximum is two is a logic I have often also stated to others facing this issue, just as donna says, and other hosts have adopted too. It's a good tip to make it clear - you are not renting an unlimited space for as many as the guest wishes to turn up with, you are renting a home for as many as you, as the property owner, states is the maximum at the costs as detailed. Period.
Louise
The fixed cost of providing the entire space is only part of the cost of hosting. There is a variable cost per guest which, depending on the type of amenities you offer and your location, can be a significant proportion of the total expenses.
For example - I offer use of a well stocked fridge and pantry including paper towels, cling wrap, tinfoil, table linens, LPG gas for the BBQ, shampoo, conditioner, body wash, soaps, toilet paper, tissues, scented candles, wi fi, unlimited towels including pool and beach towels, unlimited hot water, hair dryers, heating, light, use of laundry etc etc. All these things can be consumed or need to be cleaned after guests and their consumption and maintenance rate increases with usage.
It's utter nonsense to suggest that number of guests in the space doesn't increase the cost to the host of providing the space. Based on my own calculations, I can see that my direct variable cost per guest is an average of $11.83 per guest/per night. It varies according to the total number of guests and the length of stay. The 1st guest and guests 5 and 6 of a 1 night stay have the highest variable cost, with the lowest variable cost applying to guests 2 - 4. This direct variable cost per guest doesn't include wear and tear on linens, towels and furniture etc and it is a further cost which is directly related to the usage of the space rather than simply its existence.
Your space is listed for a maximum of 4. Therefore, if 6 turn up, 2 should be refused entry - no argument, no bargaining, no refund, no mercy and no sympathy.
There's no ethical differentiation between these people and any other common thief. Their intention is to take something that belongs to us and not pay for it - that's stealing. Everyone understands this fundamental concept. If guests attempt to steal from us, gets caught and suffer as a result - then it's their problem, not ours.
I treat people with honesty, openness, fairness and generosity. I expect the same from others. That is not unreasonable.
Evelyn
I understand how hard is to balance hospitality without feeling we're taking advantage of. If you have a maximum of 4 people, you have the right to refuse the extra guests. It doesn't matter if they want to pay extra. You just don't have the space, beds, etc.
About a week before arrival I send an email, with check-in and out dates, amount of guests, my address, cell phone. It reitares the amount of guests I'm expecting. I understand that sometimes people are added as a last minute to trips. Sort of OH, you got an apartment in NY, can I come? For the most part, my guests are honest of who stays in the apartment and they don't bring more than the maximum allowed.
Good luck and be honest with the review. I don't know if you would have allowed the booking if another host mention. I rented for 2 and 5 showed up.
Dave & Deb
{img src="https://a0.muscache.com/im/users/40913786/profile_pic/1443851571/original.jpg?aki_policy=profile_x_medium"]
Hi Margaret
I really do not have a lot more to add to this than what has been already said as there is great advice. You will need to be very frank with people and follow through with what you have listed. I recently had a guest who booked for 2-4 guests, showed up with 4, and then snuck in three more. We let the extra guests stay in which I made a resolution center request for the extra guest charge and the guest then declined the request. I escalated the resolution request to Airbnb and I did get paid but the guest left a negative review and gave two stars across the board. They then closed their account. I wish I would have taken the advice, which was given by many of the same people posting on this thread. I know I will never let this happen again and in the future I WILL have Airbnb cancel the reservation.
Again, it is important to be strict with your rules. I had a person book for two and said he might add another person. The other day he contacted me and said he wanted to add a third person, I accepted, put in an alteration in which he accepted. He contacted me again today to ask if he could add one or two more and I told him that he could not and the other two would need to find alternative accommodations or I would understand if he wanted to cancel the reservation. He got back to me to let me know that he other two friends will find a hotel.
Many others have indicated about including these things in the rules. Feel free to use these two rules that I have recently added to my House Rules.
• If a guest brings more people than were booked, the reservation will be cancelled with no refund.
• All children are considered guests and must be included in the occupancy count.
Need help? Check out these Community Help Guides! If that doesn't help, try typing your question in the "Search the community" box at the top of this page.
Louise
Two great rules, but why should we even need them? Guests not on the reservation were never allowed and all guests had to be paid for. Airbnb says they haven't changed the Terms and Conditions so, if that's really the case, why do we need to add new rules?
Maria
Thank you, it hasn´t happen to me, but now I know about it
Dave & Deb
louise,
I completely agree, why should we need them? As you and many of us know, Airbnb is pro guest and they think hosts should do everything possible and just say yes, yes, and yes. We need to add the rules to "hopefully" protect us when they do book for one and they show up with 6. How much trust do you put in Airbnb and their Terms and Conditions lately louise with all the changes we are bombarded with on a daily basis? When was the last time you can remember where Airbnb made an announcement of any of the recent changes - no pet fee? no children fee? flip flop on host cancellation penalties?
Need help? Check out these Community Help Guides! If that doesn't help, try typing your question in the "Search the community" box at the top of this page.
community.airbnb.com/t5/New-to-Hosting/unexpected-unwanted-extra-guests/td-p/49579
Margaret
Margaretunexpected, unwanted extra guests
I have two bedrooms listed with beds for two people in each. I do not want extra people in either room. Yet I had a guest book 4 adults but show up with 5.
When I checked my listing, it showed no charge for extra guests. NOT what I want it to say. But I had checked nothing for extra guests because I did not want any.
How can I handle this in the future?
Thanks.
Margaret
Donna
Margaret, unfortunately, the 'extra charge' option is misleading.
There's a way to get rid of the problem. (A strategy I learned from one of the more experienced hosts here.)
In your settings, enter an extremely high price into the extra guests charge box (e.g. $250).
Save the change.
Next time you look at your listing page, you'll note that the extra guest box has disappeared.
To reinforce this, you could mention in your House Rules - which could stand to be made more comprehensive and firm - and elsewhere in the listing that the number of guests is limited to 4. Maybe add that if an attempt is made to bring in an additional and undisclosed guest, AirBnB will be notified and the booking will be cancelled.
Sallie
We had a booking request from a (limited english) korean woman for 1 person, two nights in our apartment which sleeps two comfortably and four snugly. She admitted, after I had accepted the booking, that she wanted a holiday with her family. When I asked her how many people, she vaguely said maybe 2 others for one night. She accepted the extra cost for 2 additional people for two nights, but then turned up with another 2 people on top of the four and said they'd all only be staying for one night and were prepared to trade the extra guests for the extra night's tariff. We're new to airbnb, so are unsure how to handle a situation like this. Knowing that it was within our rights to refuse the additional guests, but not wanting to be inhospitable or ungracious, we allowed them to stay. Can someone please advise me on how to handle the review process in this case? We've accomodated them but feel that the experience has left a bitter taste. We've ony had positive experiences until now.
Robin
Sallie .....Yeah Sallie, you are going to get this every now and then! A lot of people think they are booking a 'space'.......not as a person number, so they don't place much importance on how many people utilise this 'space'!! Maybe they are trying to get something on the cheap....maybe not, but you have to let it go! It's much like guests travelling with infant children! They consider a child more as an item which just happens to be with them....like a suitcase, rather than an additional guest!!
On many occasions when I receive a booking, it is for 'One' person.....although they do say that there will be another in tow, and we just accept that because, the amount of room reparation is the same regardless of whether it is one or two people. I have a cot and I have even put in a sofa bed recently to accommodate more than two, but I don't make any adjustment to the price....the cottage is utilised, we are being paid, and that's that!
Sallie, handle the review process on how they treated your accommodation....not on the number of them! Remember, what you write will stay with you for as long as you host. Think carefully about your reviews because many people, both hosts and guests, will judge you by the words you choose. Before you write that review, make yourself a cup of coffee and leave that 'bitter taste' in the kitchen!!! Good luck.....
I sincerely hope Sallie this post is not seen by others as sanctimonious, in-accurate, or self congratulatory!...It is purely offered to try and help you with the question you have raised!.....Rob
Lisa
Robin I don't recall @ Sallie asking you what's ok for you and your listing. This is her listng and She is clearly bothered by the fact that this guest booked for 1 and turned up with 6. The guest fully knowing she was tueningup with a gaggle of people she didnt want to pay for. Just because you don't care what people do in your space, I guarantee you that it's NOT OK with a helluva lot of hosts. Of all of the hosts I know globally, yeah it's not OK for any of them. And 6 people use heck of a lot more utilities and make much more mess than 1 guest!
Sallie, I'm sorry you were put in such an uncomfortable position. It's very important to highlight what the guest did to warn other hosts. If the leave the place in good condition and nothing is damaged, you could start off with something like 'Guest x was tidy and left the flat in good condition, however, she turned up with 5 additional undisclosed guests which exceeded our maximum and wasn't appreciated.' If they nleft the place in crap condition, then fire away with a negative. Review all around. I guarantee that if they tried this with a host that has been hosting long term they would have been turned away. It's very important to let other hosts know via a review.
To the OP and Sallie, if you add it very clearly in your description and house rules that only registered guests will be granted access into the apartmet. If undisclosed guests attempt to enter witout payment(or if exceeds your maximum) that the reservation will be terminated immediately and no refund given. Please bear in mind that a lot of hosts space share in their own homes and having a random undisclosed stranger enter would be terrifying to some hosts. Especially single females living alone. There's also the little tidbit about host guarantee not extending to non registered guests, so if non registered guest cause damage you're on your own.
If you clearly state it in your rules, Airbnb will stand behind you all the way. I know lots of hosts that have exercised denied access to nonregistered guests and they still got paid and Airbnb stood behind them.
It's useful to have a good initial email chat and ask them outright on the first message if it is just 1 (or 2,3) whatever they're requesting. And they will confirm one way or admit there's more people. Make the amendment to reservation and have them accept. Or they can decline and go somewhere else.
Best of luck!
Raymond & Elaine
@margaret Hi, you do not have to accept this kind of behaviour in your home. I have this in my house rules :
* For liability reasons, guests may not bring any visitors or any others to our home at any time, for any length of time. Only those individuals who are registered guests may enter the premises.
Also ask clearly on airbnb messages how many guests will be arriving and their names .
I like Donna's idea of putting an astonomical price on extra guests. This should work and no extra people will be added. Should they turn up change the reservation , add the extra 200$ per person , either they accept to pay or they will not be allowed to enter. I agree with what Lisa wrote. Also don't think you have to accept children as if they were extra luggage if you don't want to. They are not. They can be noisy and upset other guests, your family, neighbours , they break things and damage items more often than adults. If you wish to accomodate children make sure your home is safe, make sure they are under the responsibility of their parents at all times (put into your house rules)add a security deposit to cover dammage and add the extra fee. It's your home, your rules. You don't have to put up with anything.see some useful tips here
Ana
I had a situation like that once and the guest said "whatever, it makes no difference to you".
I obviously got as mad as you are right now, so to avoid this one of my house rules is "no third parties are allowed" or something like that.
Also I always ask the guests to confirm the dates and how many people are coming over. I make sure I dont sound rude by saying "you are willing to stay from the day x to the day z and there is only x people coming over, right?"
Some people are not familiar with the website so they dont select the number of guests. Others they simply dont care. When it gets close th the check in date, I ask them everybody's full name and passport number so I can authorize their entrance in the building.
Peter
I send out an email ahead of a visit to ask for things like cell no, their arrival times and so on. I also ask them to confirm with me if they will be requiring anything other than a standard double bed. It sorts out the numbers game and also the bookings for 2 which aren't for a couple but looked remarkably like it from the booking information.
Carrie
Margaret - your listing clearly states that it acommodates four. Nothing else is needed. No extra person charge, no fine, no nothing. You listing acommodates 4. Period.
You have every right to refuse entry to the party (or at least to any number of them over four) and every right to kick them out as soon as you find out that more people are there that were booked.
Maxine
Margaret The high extra per person charge, where the maximum is two is a logic I have often also stated to others facing this issue, just as donna says, and other hosts have adopted too. It's a good tip to make it clear - you are not renting an unlimited space for as many as the guest wishes to turn up with, you are renting a home for as many as you, as the property owner, states is the maximum at the costs as detailed. Period.
Louise
The fixed cost of providing the entire space is only part of the cost of hosting. There is a variable cost per guest which, depending on the type of amenities you offer and your location, can be a significant proportion of the total expenses.
For example - I offer use of a well stocked fridge and pantry including paper towels, cling wrap, tinfoil, table linens, LPG gas for the BBQ, shampoo, conditioner, body wash, soaps, toilet paper, tissues, scented candles, wi fi, unlimited towels including pool and beach towels, unlimited hot water, hair dryers, heating, light, use of laundry etc etc. All these things can be consumed or need to be cleaned after guests and their consumption and maintenance rate increases with usage.
It's utter nonsense to suggest that number of guests in the space doesn't increase the cost to the host of providing the space. Based on my own calculations, I can see that my direct variable cost per guest is an average of $11.83 per guest/per night. It varies according to the total number of guests and the length of stay. The 1st guest and guests 5 and 6 of a 1 night stay have the highest variable cost, with the lowest variable cost applying to guests 2 - 4. This direct variable cost per guest doesn't include wear and tear on linens, towels and furniture etc and it is a further cost which is directly related to the usage of the space rather than simply its existence.
Your space is listed for a maximum of 4. Therefore, if 6 turn up, 2 should be refused entry - no argument, no bargaining, no refund, no mercy and no sympathy.
There's no ethical differentiation between these people and any other common thief. Their intention is to take something that belongs to us and not pay for it - that's stealing. Everyone understands this fundamental concept. If guests attempt to steal from us, gets caught and suffer as a result - then it's their problem, not ours.
I treat people with honesty, openness, fairness and generosity. I expect the same from others. That is not unreasonable.
Evelyn
I understand how hard is to balance hospitality without feeling we're taking advantage of. If you have a maximum of 4 people, you have the right to refuse the extra guests. It doesn't matter if they want to pay extra. You just don't have the space, beds, etc.
About a week before arrival I send an email, with check-in and out dates, amount of guests, my address, cell phone. It reitares the amount of guests I'm expecting. I understand that sometimes people are added as a last minute to trips. Sort of OH, you got an apartment in NY, can I come? For the most part, my guests are honest of who stays in the apartment and they don't bring more than the maximum allowed.
Good luck and be honest with the review. I don't know if you would have allowed the booking if another host mention. I rented for 2 and 5 showed up.
Dave & Deb
{img src="https://a0.muscache.com/im/users/40913786/profile_pic/1443851571/original.jpg?aki_policy=profile_x_medium"]
Hi Margaret
I really do not have a lot more to add to this than what has been already said as there is great advice. You will need to be very frank with people and follow through with what you have listed. I recently had a guest who booked for 2-4 guests, showed up with 4, and then snuck in three more. We let the extra guests stay in which I made a resolution center request for the extra guest charge and the guest then declined the request. I escalated the resolution request to Airbnb and I did get paid but the guest left a negative review and gave two stars across the board. They then closed their account. I wish I would have taken the advice, which was given by many of the same people posting on this thread. I know I will never let this happen again and in the future I WILL have Airbnb cancel the reservation.
Again, it is important to be strict with your rules. I had a person book for two and said he might add another person. The other day he contacted me and said he wanted to add a third person, I accepted, put in an alteration in which he accepted. He contacted me again today to ask if he could add one or two more and I told him that he could not and the other two would need to find alternative accommodations or I would understand if he wanted to cancel the reservation. He got back to me to let me know that he other two friends will find a hotel.
Many others have indicated about including these things in the rules. Feel free to use these two rules that I have recently added to my House Rules.
• If a guest brings more people than were booked, the reservation will be cancelled with no refund.
• All children are considered guests and must be included in the occupancy count.
Need help? Check out these Community Help Guides! If that doesn't help, try typing your question in the "Search the community" box at the top of this page.
Louise
Two great rules, but why should we even need them? Guests not on the reservation were never allowed and all guests had to be paid for. Airbnb says they haven't changed the Terms and Conditions so, if that's really the case, why do we need to add new rules?
Maria
Thank you, it hasn´t happen to me, but now I know about it
Dave & Deb
louise,
I completely agree, why should we need them? As you and many of us know, Airbnb is pro guest and they think hosts should do everything possible and just say yes, yes, and yes. We need to add the rules to "hopefully" protect us when they do book for one and they show up with 6. How much trust do you put in Airbnb and their Terms and Conditions lately louise with all the changes we are bombarded with on a daily basis? When was the last time you can remember where Airbnb made an announcement of any of the recent changes - no pet fee? no children fee? flip flop on host cancellation penalties?
Need help? Check out these Community Help Guides! If that doesn't help, try typing your question in the "Search the community" box at the top of this page.