Post by High Priestess on Feb 21, 2016 17:31:36 GMT
Nina shared a year ago on Hosting 911
Nina
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-116530
LYING GUESTS!!! BOOKS 1, then says "I'M BRING 10".
I'm sick of lying guests... I had a Guest Book "1", and then send an email saying that she will be bringing 10 people. She also said that she would be having a Bachelorette Party. My Listing clearly says NO PARTIES!!! I canceled the booking because she Lied!
Now, 5 calls later and numerous emails, AirBnb refuses to unblock the dates... and has charged me $50. Because I Cancelled them! Please unblock my days!!!
This is Ridiculous!!! I feel that i'm being held Hostage here. I should not be forced to accept Liars and let them book anyway and then argue back and forth with them about how many people they bring. I have a nightmare guest now who Booked "1", I caught onto his scheme, he then admitted that he was bringing "8", and after watching the security Camera's I see 10 people. I have changed the Price 5 times, and he keeps asking for more discounts. I have 2 more pending inquiries that I refuse to Pre-Approve because you don't Book 1 person for a 5 bedroom/9 bed house, and you do not book 2 people for a 4 Bedroom / 7 bed house.
How do you guys handle Blatant Liars?
14 comments
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C C
C Ca year ago
Hey, i had a similar "misunderstanding." The people, even tho hosts themselves, said they didnt see where i charge more for extra people after the first oerson. They just saw on my listing that my max was 2. They still knew they were booking for more than one, but said they didnt notice the question of how many. That was a blatant lie also, and i was infuriated even with just this minor imposition--much less yours! I handled it by saying up front on my profile: 2 max CAN stay, but 2 max are gonna PAY!!
Reply Like
Nina
Ninaa year ago
That's always the same "MO" "I didn't see where you change the number of people". or they say "oops I accidentally left it on default". Its a Lie!!! I just go and pull up the property and it clearly says # of People.
Reply Like
Nina
Ninaa year ago
The other Lie is, people "DON'T INCLUDE THE KIDS" the last one Booked 4 and I later found out he was going to be bringing his 5 Kids... "Oh I thought all Kids were free" NO YOUR 16 YEAR OLD KIDS ARE NOT FREE!!!. PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE!!!
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like
Lisa
Lisaa year ago
There was another thread recently about people assuming that kids go free always. H*ll no! If they want their kids going free then they can go stay at motel 6! Someone coined a great phrase on that thread 'if it breathes it pays' . lol!
Lisa
Lisaa year ago
Hi Nina, did you tell her that you'd need to send an amended reservation for the total number of people that will actually be staying and she'd have to accept that or cancel? Such a shame that people lie but by altering it then if she would have had a snit fit I think Airbnb would have sided with you. I'm also on the 'no parties' bandwagon but with bachelorette parties, they tend to just hang about, d nails, talk a bunch and tend to go out to the bars for the actual party time rather than having a party in the house. Such a shame you had to deal with lying, did she expect to just be paying for one person? There are some folk that take advantage of others kindnesses, I'd like to see them try booking for one and have 10 turn up at a hotel and see how that went down!!
Reply Like 1 like
Nina
Ninaa year ago
Hi Lisa, I didn't send them an option to Amend, because in my Opinion, once you Lie, I will not allow you to rebook. I've been the nice Gal, for way too Long. I've been working with people and letting extra people stay for free for quite sometime. At this point I don't care about being threatened with a bad review, I just want to nip it in the bud right from day 1. So... No I don't work with Liars. The security camera was the best thing that has ever happened to me. I started to see the extent of all of the Lying.
Reply Liked 1 like
C C
C Ca year ago
Right on
Reply Like 1 like
Lisa
Lisaa year ago
Such a shame you've had to put up with that crap. Some people just push and push the boundaries and don't give a rats ass about the hosts and our properties. Onwards and upwards!
Reply Like 2 likes
David
Davida year ago
Have you considered increasing your rates? And minimum occupancy? We have 3 bed house, so minimum we charge is 3 people. Then additional fee for extra guests up to a max of 6. We make it very clear no extra visitors or guests can enter property. All explained in our first emal to guest at point of booking. And if there is a problem , i phone CX , get them to cancel the booking.
Reply Like 3 likes
Andrew
{mg src="https://a2.muscache.com/ac/users/596107/profile_pic/1443687001/original.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&crop=w:w;*,*&crop=h:h;*,*&resize=225:*&output-format=jpg&output-quality=70"]
Andrewa year ago
This is the classic example of what I call the "Trojan Horse Guest."
A few thoughts:
1. I've found that when you want to get out of a booking because the guest misrepresented themselves, you must NOT cancel the booking manually. Rather, you have to call Airbnb first. Host cancellations instantly set off a whole process on Airbnb's end, including a complete refund and in some cases travel credit, that isn't possible to reverse. Whereas if you have evidence that the guest booked under false pretenses, the booking can be annulled through the back door. Once again, do NOT cancel a booking yourself, ever, except as an absolute last resort when all other options are exhausted! In this particular case, Airbnb probably would've preferred that you alter the reservation to charge for all people rather than cancel, since a group of 10 is technically allowed by your terms.
2. "No Parties" is a rule that's unfortunately too unspecific too be particularly useful - especially in a listing that accommodates up to 12 people. In my opinion, any gathering of 10-12 people in one house can be regarded as a party and bears great potential for damage and neighbor complaints - no matter what the stated intentions of the guests are. If you're going to host a group of 12 people renting by the night, you've already committed yourself to the inevitability of parties. Why not set more clear and specific guidelines for how those are conducted?
3. Nina, Nina, Nina. You still have Instant Book enabled. For the love of God, this is absolute insanity! You just had your house robbed and trashed last year, you still get requests that are obviously fraudulent, you're obviously aware of the penalties for cancelling, and yet even as we speak your listing sits there bookable by anyone without giving you the chance to screen your guests carefully or decline inappropriate requests. You can vent here all you want, but in all honesty you're only inviting more trouble by using IB on this kind of property. Why not take some responsibility here and start vetting your guests *before* they have a chance to screw you over?
Reply Like 5 replies•20 likes
Nina
Ninaa year ago
1.) Do you understand that taking Instant Book off affects your Search results. (Unless this has changed). 2.) The house was robbed not trashed. 3.) Why doesn't the guest take some responsibility and Be Honest. 4.) Why doesn't AirBnb stand by its Host and not allow, guest misrepresentations.
Andrew
Andrewa year ago
Yes, I'm aware that using IB gives you a bit of a competitive advantage in Search, and I'm not in favor of that. I'm also not ignorant to the laws of economics; greater advantages often come at the cost of higher degrees of risk, and when you're willfully accepting unnecessary risks, you really have no place to kick and scream when the blatantly obvious dangers manifest in reality. We may think differently - personally, if I were robbed as severely as you claimed to be (notwithstanding your tendencies toward melodrama) I would become even more vigilant about screening my guests carefully before approving them; I certainly wouldn't keep on allowing randoms to book my flambouyant McMansion. I'd love to live in a perfect world where we could take for granted that everyone behaved ethically and honestly, but we're adults and well aware that reality isn't like that. You're running a business, and you're responsible for managing your own risk. You reap extra profit from using IB, good for you, but you also communicate to your guests that you'll take all comers, no questions asked. So if that has problematic consequences, I'm sorry but you only have yourself to blame. Airbnb has allowed you to maintain an active listing despite turning your nose at protocol and cancelling on a confirmed guest. They gave you a full payout for your robbery despite your total unwillingness to reduce your risk of further violations. When are you going to reach the bottom of your sense of entitlement?
Bekah and Brian
Bekah and Briana year ago
Oh, Nina I don't think whatever bump you get from keeping Instant Book is worth the trade in BS that you have to deal with. The more BS, the more reviews get all weird and he said/she said or not left at all. If you only accepted the exact niche of people you want while filtering out lying jerks you would have these troubles (or, at least not as often). I feel like anyone who risks IB then cries foul when people lie is creating their own hot mess. Maybe charge a whole mess more $$ to deter losers?
Bekah and Brian
Bekah and Briana year ago
("wouldn't" have these troubles, obvs)
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
i'm not sure how I missed Andrew's comment earlier – I wish there was a "love" button
Rick
Ricka year ago
BAM!! well said Andrew!! Grab your books, Nina, cuz you have been schooled!!
You are an experienced host who has been around the block a few times! you certainly know that if you cancel, there will be penalties! Airbnb is more than willing to cancel a reservation (with no penalties to you) if a guest is out of line---& that seems to certainly apply in this case! A house that large that sleeps that many people seems ready made for "partying"....It must take a lot of policing--the cameras in public areas are a great idea!! I think limiting the number of guests (6?) is a good idea...& a steep additional price per day for "extras"....
Reply Like 2 replies•9 likes
Nina
Ninaa year ago
lol
Nina
Ninaa year ago
I think my properties fill a particular Niche... Its hard to find properties that fill the 10+ niche. If I don't get the appropriate support, I think I will keep the smaller properties on here, and take my larger properties off and put them somewhere else, so far I haven't needed to. AirBnb to this point has been very very responsive, and they have handled everything very very well.
Susan
Susana year ago
I can't for the life me understand how it is that you have SO many issues with airbnb Guests, you've got to strengthen your approval process.
Reply Like 5 replies•1 like
Nina
Ninaa year ago
Susan, I have Large properties. When people pay more they think that they can get away with more. Smaller properties are so much easier to handle. When you have been doing this as long as I have you run into problems.
David
Davida year ago
The biggest issues we face are at our highest rate property, a penthouse that attracts very entitled individuals who seem to feel because they are paying £200 per night they can do whatever they like. We therefore include a high deposit and charge them for any damage. Literally anything over smashing a cup or glass, we bill them. But the majority of them fail to even load the dishwasher, suppose they think 'let the maid do it'.
Susan
Susana year ago
Nina, on the larger properties, I'd suggest a professional management company assist you, airbnb isn't set up well enough so you can screen for large parties of guests. I worked with high end villas in Puerto Vallarta as rentals through a property management company.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
I prefer to be intuned with the guests and the properties. I personally prefer a more personal experience. I've been in the Real Estate business for 18yrs... I've been renting property for 17yrs. There is nothing that this woman cannot do. Airbnb is setup very well for managing multiple units. There are always people who take advantage of the system.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
Plus most the people are very interesting. I enjoy meeting them.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
I also think that people think that just because I am a woman that they can get away with stuff.
Reply Like 2 likes
Lisa
Lisaa year ago
Amen Nina!!! I've felt that way on numerous occasions!
Reply Like 2 likes
David
Davida year ago
Perhaps you should just charge a higher base price and add extra charges for those with more than 5 people for example. You wouldn't want a one person booking to take up space on your calendar anyway even if it was genuinely for one person, as you could be giving that availability to better paying reservations.
Reply Like 5 replies•1 like
Andrew
Andrewa year ago
I think that's generally a good idea, in light of the fact that Airbnb doesn't have a "minimum number of guests" setting other than 1. Higher base prices do reduce the odds of getting a booking, though, and extra-guest fees are usually the thing people are trying to sneak out of when they lie about their party size. Even if a party of 2 requested a 4-bedroom house (when more appropriate listings were available) I'd be highly suspicious and at least ask a few questions. One trick you can use, though, is to tell a smaller party, "since you are just one person, and no additional guests are permitted, I will only supply one set of linens and towels, and leave the unused bedrooms locked. If you will require access and furnishings for these rooms after all, please inform me of the number of additional guests in your party X days before your arrival, and the price will be amended accordingly." Of course, you'd want to have that conversation before the booking is actually confirmed.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
The prices are perfect... I don't want to give people any additional reasons to Lie. I do Like the Idea of setting a Minimum amount of Guests. This way if they are scared of the initial price, then they can't try and continually lie there way in.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
We have been really good about confirming the amount recently. Since we got the security camera it's easier to bust them in a bold face lie. If worse comes to worse you cannot modify a reservation. Airbnb will close the reservation and they forfeit their money.
C C
C Ca year ago
Nina, you are such a lovely person--how can anyone take advantage of you?! People need to calm down & stop lying too.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
Thank you Cheyenne.
Deborah
Ninawww.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-116530
LYING GUESTS!!! BOOKS 1, then says "I'M BRING 10".
I'm sick of lying guests... I had a Guest Book "1", and then send an email saying that she will be bringing 10 people. She also said that she would be having a Bachelorette Party. My Listing clearly says NO PARTIES!!! I canceled the booking because she Lied!
Now, 5 calls later and numerous emails, AirBnb refuses to unblock the dates... and has charged me $50. Because I Cancelled them! Please unblock my days!!!
This is Ridiculous!!! I feel that i'm being held Hostage here. I should not be forced to accept Liars and let them book anyway and then argue back and forth with them about how many people they bring. I have a nightmare guest now who Booked "1", I caught onto his scheme, he then admitted that he was bringing "8", and after watching the security Camera's I see 10 people. I have changed the Price 5 times, and he keeps asking for more discounts. I have 2 more pending inquiries that I refuse to Pre-Approve because you don't Book 1 person for a 5 bedroom/9 bed house, and you do not book 2 people for a 4 Bedroom / 7 bed house.
How do you guys handle Blatant Liars?
14 comments
Follow
Like
C C
C Ca year ago
Hey, i had a similar "misunderstanding." The people, even tho hosts themselves, said they didnt see where i charge more for extra people after the first oerson. They just saw on my listing that my max was 2. They still knew they were booking for more than one, but said they didnt notice the question of how many. That was a blatant lie also, and i was infuriated even with just this minor imposition--much less yours! I handled it by saying up front on my profile: 2 max CAN stay, but 2 max are gonna PAY!!
Reply Like
Nina
Ninaa year ago
That's always the same "MO" "I didn't see where you change the number of people". or they say "oops I accidentally left it on default". Its a Lie!!! I just go and pull up the property and it clearly says # of People.
Reply Like
Nina
Ninaa year ago
The other Lie is, people "DON'T INCLUDE THE KIDS" the last one Booked 4 and I later found out he was going to be bringing his 5 Kids... "Oh I thought all Kids were free" NO YOUR 16 YEAR OLD KIDS ARE NOT FREE!!!. PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE!!!
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like
Lisa
Lisaa year ago
There was another thread recently about people assuming that kids go free always. H*ll no! If they want their kids going free then they can go stay at motel 6! Someone coined a great phrase on that thread 'if it breathes it pays' . lol!
Lisa
Lisaa year ago
Hi Nina, did you tell her that you'd need to send an amended reservation for the total number of people that will actually be staying and she'd have to accept that or cancel? Such a shame that people lie but by altering it then if she would have had a snit fit I think Airbnb would have sided with you. I'm also on the 'no parties' bandwagon but with bachelorette parties, they tend to just hang about, d nails, talk a bunch and tend to go out to the bars for the actual party time rather than having a party in the house. Such a shame you had to deal with lying, did she expect to just be paying for one person? There are some folk that take advantage of others kindnesses, I'd like to see them try booking for one and have 10 turn up at a hotel and see how that went down!!
Reply Like 1 like
Nina
Ninaa year ago
Hi Lisa, I didn't send them an option to Amend, because in my Opinion, once you Lie, I will not allow you to rebook. I've been the nice Gal, for way too Long. I've been working with people and letting extra people stay for free for quite sometime. At this point I don't care about being threatened with a bad review, I just want to nip it in the bud right from day 1. So... No I don't work with Liars. The security camera was the best thing that has ever happened to me. I started to see the extent of all of the Lying.
Reply Liked 1 like
C C
C Ca year ago
Right on
Reply Like 1 like
Lisa
Lisaa year ago
Such a shame you've had to put up with that crap. Some people just push and push the boundaries and don't give a rats ass about the hosts and our properties. Onwards and upwards!
Reply Like 2 likes
David
Davida year ago
Have you considered increasing your rates? And minimum occupancy? We have 3 bed house, so minimum we charge is 3 people. Then additional fee for extra guests up to a max of 6. We make it very clear no extra visitors or guests can enter property. All explained in our first emal to guest at point of booking. And if there is a problem , i phone CX , get them to cancel the booking.
Reply Like 3 likes
Andrew
{mg src="https://a2.muscache.com/ac/users/596107/profile_pic/1443687001/original.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&crop=w:w;*,*&crop=h:h;*,*&resize=225:*&output-format=jpg&output-quality=70"]
Andrewa year ago
This is the classic example of what I call the "Trojan Horse Guest."
A few thoughts:
1. I've found that when you want to get out of a booking because the guest misrepresented themselves, you must NOT cancel the booking manually. Rather, you have to call Airbnb first. Host cancellations instantly set off a whole process on Airbnb's end, including a complete refund and in some cases travel credit, that isn't possible to reverse. Whereas if you have evidence that the guest booked under false pretenses, the booking can be annulled through the back door. Once again, do NOT cancel a booking yourself, ever, except as an absolute last resort when all other options are exhausted! In this particular case, Airbnb probably would've preferred that you alter the reservation to charge for all people rather than cancel, since a group of 10 is technically allowed by your terms.
2. "No Parties" is a rule that's unfortunately too unspecific too be particularly useful - especially in a listing that accommodates up to 12 people. In my opinion, any gathering of 10-12 people in one house can be regarded as a party and bears great potential for damage and neighbor complaints - no matter what the stated intentions of the guests are. If you're going to host a group of 12 people renting by the night, you've already committed yourself to the inevitability of parties. Why not set more clear and specific guidelines for how those are conducted?
3. Nina, Nina, Nina. You still have Instant Book enabled. For the love of God, this is absolute insanity! You just had your house robbed and trashed last year, you still get requests that are obviously fraudulent, you're obviously aware of the penalties for cancelling, and yet even as we speak your listing sits there bookable by anyone without giving you the chance to screen your guests carefully or decline inappropriate requests. You can vent here all you want, but in all honesty you're only inviting more trouble by using IB on this kind of property. Why not take some responsibility here and start vetting your guests *before* they have a chance to screw you over?
Reply Like 5 replies•20 likes
Nina
Ninaa year ago
1.) Do you understand that taking Instant Book off affects your Search results. (Unless this has changed). 2.) The house was robbed not trashed. 3.) Why doesn't the guest take some responsibility and Be Honest. 4.) Why doesn't AirBnb stand by its Host and not allow, guest misrepresentations.
Andrew
Andrewa year ago
Yes, I'm aware that using IB gives you a bit of a competitive advantage in Search, and I'm not in favor of that. I'm also not ignorant to the laws of economics; greater advantages often come at the cost of higher degrees of risk, and when you're willfully accepting unnecessary risks, you really have no place to kick and scream when the blatantly obvious dangers manifest in reality. We may think differently - personally, if I were robbed as severely as you claimed to be (notwithstanding your tendencies toward melodrama) I would become even more vigilant about screening my guests carefully before approving them; I certainly wouldn't keep on allowing randoms to book my flambouyant McMansion. I'd love to live in a perfect world where we could take for granted that everyone behaved ethically and honestly, but we're adults and well aware that reality isn't like that. You're running a business, and you're responsible for managing your own risk. You reap extra profit from using IB, good for you, but you also communicate to your guests that you'll take all comers, no questions asked. So if that has problematic consequences, I'm sorry but you only have yourself to blame. Airbnb has allowed you to maintain an active listing despite turning your nose at protocol and cancelling on a confirmed guest. They gave you a full payout for your robbery despite your total unwillingness to reduce your risk of further violations. When are you going to reach the bottom of your sense of entitlement?
Bekah and Brian
Bekah and Briana year ago
Oh, Nina I don't think whatever bump you get from keeping Instant Book is worth the trade in BS that you have to deal with. The more BS, the more reviews get all weird and he said/she said or not left at all. If you only accepted the exact niche of people you want while filtering out lying jerks you would have these troubles (or, at least not as often). I feel like anyone who risks IB then cries foul when people lie is creating their own hot mess. Maybe charge a whole mess more $$ to deter losers?
Bekah and Brian
Bekah and Briana year ago
("wouldn't" have these troubles, obvs)
Julie and Eric
Julie and Erica year ago
i'm not sure how I missed Andrew's comment earlier – I wish there was a "love" button
Rick
Ricka year ago
BAM!! well said Andrew!! Grab your books, Nina, cuz you have been schooled!!
You are an experienced host who has been around the block a few times! you certainly know that if you cancel, there will be penalties! Airbnb is more than willing to cancel a reservation (with no penalties to you) if a guest is out of line---& that seems to certainly apply in this case! A house that large that sleeps that many people seems ready made for "partying"....It must take a lot of policing--the cameras in public areas are a great idea!! I think limiting the number of guests (6?) is a good idea...& a steep additional price per day for "extras"....
Reply Like 2 replies•9 likes
Nina
Ninaa year ago
lol
Nina
Ninaa year ago
I think my properties fill a particular Niche... Its hard to find properties that fill the 10+ niche. If I don't get the appropriate support, I think I will keep the smaller properties on here, and take my larger properties off and put them somewhere else, so far I haven't needed to. AirBnb to this point has been very very responsive, and they have handled everything very very well.
Susan
Susana year ago
I can't for the life me understand how it is that you have SO many issues with airbnb Guests, you've got to strengthen your approval process.
Reply Like 5 replies•1 like
Nina
Ninaa year ago
Susan, I have Large properties. When people pay more they think that they can get away with more. Smaller properties are so much easier to handle. When you have been doing this as long as I have you run into problems.
David
Davida year ago
The biggest issues we face are at our highest rate property, a penthouse that attracts very entitled individuals who seem to feel because they are paying £200 per night they can do whatever they like. We therefore include a high deposit and charge them for any damage. Literally anything over smashing a cup or glass, we bill them. But the majority of them fail to even load the dishwasher, suppose they think 'let the maid do it'.
Susan
Susana year ago
Nina, on the larger properties, I'd suggest a professional management company assist you, airbnb isn't set up well enough so you can screen for large parties of guests. I worked with high end villas in Puerto Vallarta as rentals through a property management company.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
I prefer to be intuned with the guests and the properties. I personally prefer a more personal experience. I've been in the Real Estate business for 18yrs... I've been renting property for 17yrs. There is nothing that this woman cannot do. Airbnb is setup very well for managing multiple units. There are always people who take advantage of the system.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
Plus most the people are very interesting. I enjoy meeting them.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
I also think that people think that just because I am a woman that they can get away with stuff.
Reply Like 2 likes
Lisa
Lisaa year ago
Amen Nina!!! I've felt that way on numerous occasions!
Reply Like 2 likes
David
Davida year ago
Perhaps you should just charge a higher base price and add extra charges for those with more than 5 people for example. You wouldn't want a one person booking to take up space on your calendar anyway even if it was genuinely for one person, as you could be giving that availability to better paying reservations.
Reply Like 5 replies•1 like
Andrew
Andrewa year ago
I think that's generally a good idea, in light of the fact that Airbnb doesn't have a "minimum number of guests" setting other than 1. Higher base prices do reduce the odds of getting a booking, though, and extra-guest fees are usually the thing people are trying to sneak out of when they lie about their party size. Even if a party of 2 requested a 4-bedroom house (when more appropriate listings were available) I'd be highly suspicious and at least ask a few questions. One trick you can use, though, is to tell a smaller party, "since you are just one person, and no additional guests are permitted, I will only supply one set of linens and towels, and leave the unused bedrooms locked. If you will require access and furnishings for these rooms after all, please inform me of the number of additional guests in your party X days before your arrival, and the price will be amended accordingly." Of course, you'd want to have that conversation before the booking is actually confirmed.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
The prices are perfect... I don't want to give people any additional reasons to Lie. I do Like the Idea of setting a Minimum amount of Guests. This way if they are scared of the initial price, then they can't try and continually lie there way in.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
We have been really good about confirming the amount recently. Since we got the security camera it's easier to bust them in a bold face lie. If worse comes to worse you cannot modify a reservation. Airbnb will close the reservation and they forfeit their money.
C C
C Ca year ago
Nina, you are such a lovely person--how can anyone take advantage of you?! People need to calm down & stop lying too.
Nina
Ninaa year ago
Thank you Cheyenne.
Deborah