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Post by jessa on Dec 23, 2015 0:26:38 GMT
Here is the problem with the new community, as I see it:
The newbies flood it with very specific questions, they come there not to socialize or learn from other hosts or to vent and seek a comforting shoulder, or to be surprised that the shoulder is not there but what they really need is a reality check. They come to the community with a very specific question, and they seek that specific question answered very precisely and just the way they like to hear it. There is no 'getting a feel for the group dynamic', there is no invitation to go a little off topic to learn new things. No fraternizing, no straight talk either. It's the alternative to picking up the phone and dialing airbnb or digging through the guidelines. When their specific question, often hastily and ill defined, is not answered to their liking, or the host reaching out addresses another issue, they get hostile and protective, because they never asked this or that. They asked one question, a short badly researched question, they didn't invite us into their world, they expect to be serviced and by whom they don't know, many seem to think they will get airbnbs attention). They are demanding a service be delivered. When the "old guard" takes the time to take the new host apart, the newbie thinks, who does he/she think she is. I came here to have my question answered, not invite you for a chat.
If that is to remain the culture of this question based and driven community center - as opposed to the (very imperfect lets admit it) groups were discussion was encouraged and came pretty naturally with that big box to scribble in and the replies and responses, then this community center will die out pretty soon. Because anyone capable of answering the questions has nothing from it, no banter, no gossip, no exchange of bad or happy encounters, no wake up calls, no in-return benefit. What is in it for those in the know? Not even gratitude. The levels-thing is the closest to gratitude. Hey look at me I'm level 7, I've got stuff to say, I'm valued (by an automated system). The newbies just popped in to have their poorly researched question answered in whatever they imagine a professional manner to be.
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Post by High Priestess on Dec 23, 2015 3:09:38 GMT
Yes, you are spot on, Jessa. This is exactly what I see happening there too. WHich to me means, that the new Community Center is not a community. Because you don't go to a community of colleagues or acquaintances and ask a very specific question, and insist that no one say anything to you except the specific answer, which once you get, you then turn around and leave.
Airbnb could have created a place for community if they had been more willing to listen to those of us who already created community on the old groups. The new groups in their structure and layout are not at all conducive to creating community, which is not to say that community might not be somehow created there in spite of that, but it is just much more of a challenge than it has to be.
The new community center is as you say, something like a place people go to get a service. A Helpdesk, as Helga put it. Or Yahoo Answers, as I decribed it.
We of the "old guard" are on there at times now, trying to set people straight, but I don't know whether we will stay on there indefinitely doing that. Maybe we'll be so frustrated with nonsense getting posted there that we will stick around to fight off the nonsense? NOt sure how it will all go....So, we'll see what happens.
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Post by salvia on Dec 23, 2015 9:30:12 GMT
I can not agree more with you. I just read the thread at the CC and was soo put off by it! I dont want to communicate like that and even less in such an uninviting, sterile environment. It totally takes away my motivation to help or to support with empathy. It is painful to watch this loss of spirit and mutual support or appreciation. I had hope that something would develop within the Host Circle but no sign of it so far.
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Post by apricotnelli on Dec 23, 2015 11:44:37 GMT
I agree and I think the group structure is what is doing some of it. Because there is no specialisation like new hosts forum or geographical groups questions are going up and getting no specialised answers or opportunities for the questioner to read other similar questions. Some issues are very geography specific like tenancy.
there are some very active contributors. Some are inexperienced hosts. Sometimes they are giving great answers but sometimes their answers are just wrong or they give very guest centric answers as in doormat host behaviour. When a more experienced host talks it straight they get their head eaten off. The ranking system I think doesnt help with that as the people contributing answers are ranked on contributions. As a newbie you could easily think this level 7 person who is telling me I cant charge for an unexpected infant is right...
There are different hosting styles but I have a lot of respect for any experienced host and particularly those with a 4 * plus ranking or superhost. Their styles may be different than mine but I would still listen to them.
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Post by High Priestess on Dec 24, 2015 4:04:51 GMT
Posted on the Launch Pad hosts group on new Airbnb groups today (quoting Jessa!) I think the many problems we are seeing on these groups, can all be linked to the fact that neither the structure, or layout, or the appearance/imagery, or levels, or opportunity for OP to be rating the answers ("most helpful") , nor the moderation by Airbnb staff (rather than peers) , tend to create a sense of host community. I think that these many factors, all actually mitigate against creating host community, rather than supporting that.
In conjunction with the lack of elements to create host community, we have several factors which make the groups oriented to being viewed as a Help Center, or Q&A center, which is solely for hosts coming and asking a question, expecting that people focus narrowly on just what they want, being thrown off or even getting upset when others attempt to engage them beyond the narrow focus of their narrow question, and then leaving the room afterwards, likely to not return unless they have another question.
Hosts like us who have been part of a real host community, are oriented to wanting host community. We are interested not just in questions and answers, but people sharing their stories. That doesn't happen just by creating a post asking people to share their stories -- it happens because you create the motivation in hosts to share, because you start creating the community by trying to engage people. One of the ways we have done that on the old groups, is by having a band of regular participants who learn to engage people beyond just their question. Someone may think they come in just to ask a question, but they learn that they can chat too, and tell stories. SOmeone asks a question about towels, and we look at their listing and see they have pet birds, and talk about that, or in some other way we chat. THis is how people normally build relationships and community -- they just start chatting. THey start sharing. In order to have this chatting and sharing start happening, you have to have the structure for it and the setup for it. Having ratings on these groups of any type -- levels, or "most helpful" answers, I think is not so conducive to that, as these things orient people to see this as a place where information is provided by a team of help staff experts, rather than a place to go and share and get to know others.
Many people have posted on here that they are looking for info on how to contact AIrbnb. Others have thought they were contacting Airbnb when they posted on here, and would post comments like, "what is wrong with you people, I need help with this, please call me at this phone number _____". Or here's one from today who wants to "talk to a respresentative." (Deb and Dave and Clare are dutifully responding thoroughly to many of these people but eventually I think they will tire of it).
Still others treat those who answer questions as tools, who are only here to answer their question, not as fellow hosts in a community. When hosts dont' want to be engaged beyond their question, in a sense they are refusing community. I find this frustrating and I think others who are trying to respond to posts, do as well.
Here's how one regular community member from the old groups views how she sees those coming here to ask questions:
" "
Connected to this is another issue that many of the experienced hosts have talked about, which is that we are not happy with those who have started hosting, without doing any preparation or having given any thought to their enterprise. We are happy to help those who show that they are making a reasonable effort to get started or learn about hosting. But those who simply jump in prematurely, mindlessly, or who passively expect to not have to do anything, but have someone else spoon feed them everything they need to know and do, we see that the only way we can really help such people is by giving them a reality check -- because what they really need is to take more responsibility for their own business. (Too many hosts dont' realize they even are setting up a business) To the extent that we see such people asking for help on these groups, we will tend to respond by pointing out their mistakes or lack of preparation, giving them a reality check. ANd our orientation to enlarging the context, is going to make our responses more challenging or a little harder to take, for such people, than some lightweight but fairly useless response that maybe makes the host feel good but will ensure they continue to not be very well prepared for being a host.
If the culture that starts to be created on these groups, is one where hosts get a lot of flak for trying to bring this reality check to people, for sharing their experience, then they wont' participate, and the hosts who will participate, wil be more those who dont' have much of value to say. So you will then have people coming not for host community but just to find a tool who gives them an answer, and others who are happy to be a tool for a while but aren't really of much use. And there we come to @helga's "dangerous suburb quarter" .
For instance, here is a host who wanted to be able to have her listing show $18 a night, but didnt' want to allow anyone to actually be able to book for $18 a night because that was too little for her. She wanted a minimum of two people booking, for $36, but wanted the listing ad to show $18, as she thought this would be more competitive. Several of us regular participants tried to point out the flaws in her thinking, but she would have none of it, and so she used the ranking system available on these groups to vote as "most helpful" a response which didn't challenge her thinking at all, -- indeed a response which changed the subject entirely, and simply suggested using the word "FREE" in her ads a lot as a way to entice guests.
The "most helpful" vote could be used in a way that is destructive of community, since it can be cast out arbitrarily to assign values to answers, which may not be answers which would have much community value. Or it can be used to dismiss collective wisdom, when the voter chooses to cast the most helpful vote at someone who provides a foolish, trivial or even incorrect answer. I think it would really be best to not have "most helpful" votes at all for threads, because ranking answers mitigates against viewing the post simply as a way to open a discussion and share. Think about it: when friends get together to share stories, problems, issues, they would find it offensive if one of their group suddenly stood up and handed out an award to another one in their group, for having the best answer. That isn't how a group of friends works, or a community works. People share, but they do so as friends, with a motivation of caring. The community feeling is lost (and friendships can be lost) when friends' answers are rated, or when community members are ranked with levels. These things can introduce resentment: why did so and so get voted best, and not me, why do they have a higher level. |
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Post by clocktowerpete on Dec 24, 2015 8:16:57 GMT
I think the groups which work best are those actively moderated. The CC was going to have staff moderation but that doesn't seem to be happening even in the beta/test phase. Airbnb really has to plan this in if there is to be any point in widely opening up the CC to the whole population of Airbnb hosts.
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