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Post by Kristi on Dec 8, 2015 13:20:04 GMT
First off let me say Thank You to Deborah and others who have provided us with this great forum. I don't know about the rest of you but my first year with Airbnb was amazing. Preparing my Casita, learning the ropes from my trusted friends in New Hosts Group mostly, meeting the wonderful guests from around the world and perfecting to some extent my Hosting style. But now life has changed! There are so many more Airbnb listings, these past 2 months I have had hardly any interest in my Casita, the "groups" on the Airbnb site have changed, everyday there is an article about the problems with Airbnb and their listings in the media, I miss the fact in "groups" I can't have dialog or check out my friends listings. My city is looking into the Airbnb issue, neighboring cities have banned the nightly/weekly rentals. I have done everything by the book....I have a Business License, I pay my city, state and federal taxes and I am getting very discouraged. I have my Casita opened through March but if things don't pick up after the new year I will have to get a renter month to month. I am retired and I depend on some income from my Casita. How are the rest of you all feeling?
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Post by lambada on Dec 8, 2015 16:36:40 GMT
I hear ya Kristi and share your frustration and disappointment. I used to be a HUGE fan of Airbnb and converted many guests who found me on other platforms to start using Airbnb. Although I have the STR permit, I've been doing mostly monthly now except for when I need to get frequent access for repairs to that private unit (it's in my home, different floor). So far it's been going well and I got long staying guests who are here for relocation or internship purposes. My neighbors are great and they've been sending their relatives to stay with me and too bad I won't be able to host them much now because of the monthly rent. But the city politics is just getting old and to make it worse, the Airbnb forum with posts attacking other hosts is just not how I want to live my daily life.
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Post by Kristi on Dec 8, 2015 16:48:43 GMT
Lambada, I like you have my Airbnb Casita on a separate level from my living space. Mine has its own private entrance with a large master bedroom, full bath and small kitchenette. I would love folks for a month, my longest guest was for 3 weeks and they were a joy to have. I don't know how to attract the transient monthly guest. Most of the people i encounter who want the studio room for longer than a month want something permanent. All my neighbors know what I am doing and I have had stellar guests so there have been no problems. My guests from Germany who stayed with me for a week even came with us to our neighborhood Memorial Day party! I wish you the best and I hope things work out for all of us.
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Post by fleur on Dec 8, 2015 20:18:43 GMT
Is it just a seasonal downturn? I've noticed a lot more listings here too but I'm still as booked as I want to be.
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Post by High Priestess on Dec 9, 2015 0:19:02 GMT
When the host groups first started on Airbnb in November 2013, I posted on the groups that I thought the success of many hosts, when others heard about that success, would lead to more problems for hosts, as it would eventually attract too many other hosts in many areas. I thought what would happen with hosting, in many communities, was that more and more hosts would sign up, and as a result, prices that hosts could ask for their listings, would drop. I also expected that many hosts would find it harder to do business, due to the increase in the number of listings in their area. I predicted that as a result of these things, many hosts would go back to doing standard long term rentals. These things have happened -- more in some places than others.
Many hosts who have been hosting for quite some time, feel slighted that the newer hosts in their area get promoted and their listings put up first (though this boost in search ranking is only temporary) -- hosts feel that if they have been doing this awhile, that experience and their seniority should count for something, but unfortunately that isnt' how the system works...except to the extent that guests decide they prefer to book at places that have more reviews or with hosts who have been hosting for longer. So, if there is a glut of listings in any given area, everyone is equally affected by the excess of supply. Brian Chesky in a recent talk spoke of how there would eventually be an Airbnb listing on every block in every city -- not realizing, I guess, that having so many listings is actually a problem for hosts. I think Airbnb doesn't really need to keep trying to get more people to sign up as hosts. But for them, it could be fine to have too many hosts, because they dont' care if one host gets 5 bookings in a month, or if 5 hosts each get only one booking that month, as long as all guests find a place. A glut of hosts is good for guests -- but not for hosts.
So, ironically, the success of Airbnb, and the success of many hosts, has I believe resulted in the "downfall" of many hosts and problems for many hosts, when there end up being too many people attracted to being hosts and then too many listings in any given area. We have seen the number of listings growing and growing in many areas, but eventually it will stabilize, when those who newly sign up find that they arent' getting enough business, or established hosts find that they aren't getting enough business, and give it up.
This is a typically slow season for many (typically things start to be a lot slower after Halloween, and don't pick up to "normal" until about March or April, I have found) but I have seen more hosts than usual in my area posting on the groups that they aren't getting much business.
I think that someone like yourself Kristi that needs the income from your Casita, but can't find enough renters who are not wanting a permanent place, is put in the most difficult position. Some hosts dont' rely much on their income, so if they get 6 bookings a month, or only one booking every 3 months, doesn't matter so much to them. But if you need the income and there aren't enough short term renters in your area, then you have little choice but to get a standard long term renter. THings may change later on, if other hosts in your area eventually give up hosting, and then you can go back to doing short term rentals when the market opens up to that again. Or if you can hang on until spring, business may pick up, since spring and summer tend to be a lot busier than winter.
The legalization issue seems to cut both ways. In some areas, hosts have to stop hosting because their city prohibits short term rentals. But in other areas, when regulations go into effect, this actually helps some host, because it can cut down on the competition, in cases where much of the competition was doing short term rentals in a way that is no longer permitted. For instance, in New York City -- after NYC pushed hard for Airbnb to do something to stop the number of hosts illegally renting out whole units there that were not their primary residence, which the city prohibits, Airbnb de-listed many listings where hosts had more than one entire house/apartment listing. I saw a few posts on the New York groups, where some hosts who did not rent out whole apartments, were saying they were glad of this, because now they were getting more business.
However, like Lambada, I do not like to see the "host vs host" animosity in cities, where one host is upset with another host who didn't get the required paperwork or seems to him to be renting "illegally." I would prefer that cities & governments do the policing, not hosts.
I am not bothered by "scandal" stories about AIrbnb in the media, and though I am not happy with the new Airbnb groups, i am thankful that at least Airbnb will still have host groups. They could have decided not to have any! And apart from how badly the new groups are structured and designed, I do think it will help that Airbnb staff will be reading the posts -- maybe in this way Airbnb can be educated by hosts more than it has been in the past. I still think Airbnb is probably the best platform to use for short term rentals, but then, I do not have experience with other platforms (except Craigslist) -- I'm only going on what I have heard from others.
I also hope things work out for all of us to be able to do business in a way that is satisifying to us and works well for us.
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Post by Kristi on Dec 10, 2015 15:57:25 GMT
Deborah,
You amaze me every time you post. You have the most positive grounded outlook on this situation. Since I started this fantastic journey of Hosting I had a goal to earn $800 a month to supplement my income, this is the amount I rented out the room in the past for 3 years to a young female attorney, she was wonderful but moved on with her boyfriend. So in January 2015 I listed my Casita. And I have met my goal actually the gross was higher but I have taken into account my expenses as supplies, taxes and treats I provide. I can go back to the month to month renter but then my room is occupied 24/7. I like the availability to have my family and friends come visit and just to have time where no one is occupying the room. So I will take your lead and just hang in there thru the spring and summer and see what the future holds.
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Post by High Priestess on Dec 10, 2015 16:26:31 GMT
Thanks, Kristi! Yes, I am a very optimistic person and I tend to always "look on the bright side" of everything. I believe the difficulties you are describing are not so much owing to AIrbnb, as they are to market forces. Though, It is a problem, as I said, that Airbnb pushes to sign up more and more hosts (with these notices we all get, that we will get a bonus if we get a friend to sign up as a host), because most areas actually do not need more hosts, we need LESS HOSTS so that our business is not diminished by excess supply of listings in an area. That is the one thing Airbnb is doing that isn't really helping us, but then, who can blame any company for wanting to grow larger? Most companies do and I am sure it would be hard to stop it. And if AIrbnb gets both more hosts AND more guests, then maybe that all works out. Yes, if you can hang on until spring, then try to out-compete others in your area to do well in spring, summer and fall, maybe you can earn enough that way to not be worried if you have your Casita vacant much of the winter. Use it for yourself as a retreat setting during that time? That is what I am doing now when I have a vacancy in one of my listings -- I go on retreat at my own house! Saves on money, because I don't have to drive and pay someone else to stay in their AIrbnb!
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Post by lambada on Dec 10, 2015 20:46:02 GMT
Interestingly, it is much easier for me to get short term guests than monthly ones. Dollarwise, at the end it is almost the same as although I make more during peak seasons (summer), in the winter it could be very quiet. So at the end of the year, all the income minus expenses equals to what I get from monthly. I do enjoy running short term rentals and eventhough I don't always get to meet with the guests, I still enjoy my communication with them and I get the high from receiving the fabulous reviews But speaking of interaction with guests, that's one more thing I'm not in agreement with Airbnb recent policy, where they want to go back to their roots, which sounds to me that they wanted you to entertain the guests, providing breakfast, etc. I am very clear in my listing that I have a busy life and won't be able to play concierge etc. I thought the entire unique thing about Airbnb is that we can do whatever works for us, as long as it is made clear to the guests on what to expect.
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Post by High Priestess on Dec 11, 2015 5:14:24 GMT
I like having a mix of shorter term, and middle-term/longer term guests. Because I am near a major university, there are a lot of students coming to my area for just one semester, and those work well for me. So they stay 3-4 months. Or someone comes to do research, and stays one month. But I also like having people come for a few days to a couple weeks -- those are actually often the nicest people to have because they are the ones most in the "tourist" mode or vacation mode and really grateful for everything, they have a very nice positive energy.
THere is a housing shortage in my area -- really there is all over the state -- and so rents have gone up quite a lot. My rates are actually often generally slightly lower than the standard long term rental rates for similar offerings. I feel sad for tenants who are trying to move to this area, and a 1 bedroom apartment is now going for $1900 in my area -- my area has the most expensive housing in the whole nation!! It's heartbreaking what young people are facing. A friend of mine, a property owner, just had me help him get a 1 bedroom apartment ready for rent. It's a glum, dark little apartment, quite unattractive. He is asking $2150 rent for it. I felt sad for whoever has to take it in desperation. THe previous tenants in that unit, had made the living room into a 2nd bedroom, so two of them could live there and split the high rent -- they had rigged a curtain up for privacy. It's nuts what people have to do to get housing now....
I also don't like it if Airbnb is pushing for hosts to do more than just offer accomodations. I dont' know if they are really pushing all hosts to offer more or if they just want to encourage some to do more -- those who want to. I want to be left alone to do things the way that I find works best and which works well for those who stay with me. I am sure there are some hosts who want to offer more -- breakfast, dinners, tours, kayak trips, horseback riding -- so let them do that, and let me do my thing.
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Post by Kristi on Dec 12, 2015 13:58:58 GMT
I think when a guest is looking for a place to stay they have all the tools with the description and reviews to seek out the perfect place for them. I like to have interaction with my guests. I love to suggest a place to eat or visit then hear how they liked it. But the Airbnb's I have stayed one host welcomed us and left us alone (it was 6 peeps in a 3 bedroom home with the host off site) and the other one had a note on a gate a a few limited texts (2 of us in a private entrance bedroom/bath) honestly I would have loved to meet her. So I try to be sensitive to my guests level of closeness.
When I rented out my Casita long term my renter told me horror stories of other studio's for rent more expensive than mine and the condition I was appalled. I am just happy when you can hit that sweet spot in connecting with people.
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Post by Maria Lurdes (Milu) on Dec 14, 2015 23:38:16 GMT
On a side note, I find myself experiencing exactly what Deborah so eloquently described. I also feel let down by Airbnb as I used to feel like a special snowflake and get lots of kudos and inclusions, and now I'm the anti-christ as a multi-listing host. That's life, and we move on! I hustle to make a living and we're doing ok. One thing is that as Deborah says, there is most likely a benefit to Airbnb moderating the new Community as they get to hear real live issues, I personally participate in the community out of sheer stubborness, as I find it really hard to use/navigate. I used to moderate the message boards for The Rolling Stones website, so I know my way around a board. In any case, it will be important for us to realize that we may want to save our frank conversations for this third party board or on other applications, as I'm not sure that I want to open up to much and later find out that certain details were being used against me. I'm thinking specifically of a post for multi-listing hosts that I wrote a long reply in, then thought better of it and deleted it, instead inviting the hosts to come here to continue the conversation where we could speak more freely. So again another reason to be here!!! that, and Deborah rocks
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Post by High Priestess on Dec 15, 2015 0:12:30 GMT
Yes, I definitely agree Maria Lurdes (Milu), with your point about not wanting to share certain things on the new Airbnb groups. In fact, my plan is to share almost nothing about myself on the new Airbnb groups. Because I just don't know what might end up happening with what I share -- who might later be on those groups. And I REALLY dont' like that I can't delete any of my posts on there later on.
So, although I am participating on the new groups, I don't want to bring my own dilemmas or stories about guests there. Instead, I am participating by answering others' questions. When I have a story to share, I will either share it on this forum, (or on the associated blog site to this forum, as a blog: www.globalhostingblogs.com ), or I might share a bit of it on the new Airbnb forum but in a "disguised" way. Eg instead of saying, "here's what happened to me" I might say, "Here's something that happened to a host I know in Texas." (Hint hint, smile smile...if you read about my "friend" in Dallas TX -- or Portland OR for that matter -- that might be a story about me and my guest!)
I have seen some ugly things happening vis a vis hosts "policing" other hosts in some different cities around the country, and I prefer to stay out of that. I know what you mean, Maria Lurdes (Milu), about the "multiple listings" hosts issue. I think it's sad and discouraging that if someone as a businessperson made a good living in just about any other career, people would congratulate them for being so successful. But if that person makes good money as an Airbnb host, has investment properties to offer as Airbnb listings, or they are a host with "multiple listings", then they just might be viewed as the Airbnb Satan. This got bad in San Francisco, where the tenants' activist groups were just incensed at those hosts who had several whole property listings --- without even knowing what the story was. (Several of them were managers for someone else's properties) Also, the hosts who were "legal" and had all the right paperwork, were upset at those who had not registered. The way city governments talk about short term rentals, the less money you make at hosting, the more virtuous you are, and the more you make, the more evil you are. Airbnb produces reports that spin their data in a way that appeases city governments --eg, hosts in NYC only earn $5100 a year on average...well that no doubt includes all the "dud" hosts who signed up but never got a single guest, or only signed up to rent their place for the 5 days they were going on vacation that year, etc. At the same time as Airbnb produces these well-spun reports to offer to the city governments, hotels and B&B's are signing up to list their rooms on Airbnb-- eg see this story about hotels listing on Airbnb .
I think the politics about making money from rental property will continue to be difficult, because the housing crisis will get worse, not better. So people will view those making money from rental property as the villans, and the poor renters who can't find a place they can afford, as the protagonists in the tale. But the housing crisis issue cannot be solved by draconian restrictions on property rights -- and I am planning to write a blog about "Airbnb and the Affordable Housing Crisis" fairly soon. I am doing some research still, in preparation to write that but have been meaning to write on that topic.
Yes, Maria Lurdes (Milu) I saw a thread about hosts with multiple listings on the new groups. I thought that is a delicate issue to be presenting -- not a good one to be putting out in a public place, particularly for hosts who dont' have regulations in their areas yet. Who knows they could later be regulated against and the city comes and trolls on Airbnb groups and finds their post about multiple listings -- not good. Better not to advertise something that even if legal in one's own city, draws ire in other regions.
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Post by lambada on Dec 15, 2015 5:29:36 GMT
I am so with you Deborah and superhostnyc. I used to run 7 listings and so proud of what I accomplished. And I started reading all these gestapo hosts berating other anti-christ hosts (LOL superhostnyc, what a great name for US!). One SF host, posted saying he's looking for a host to rent his house because he could no longer run STR because of the law. Later on, apparently he found a loophole with the law, and looks like he listed his house saying he's occupying one of the bedrooms. And with that, he was able to get his STR permit. Nothing wrong with that at all, except now he started campaigning against other hosts who apparently are 'bad actors'. And of course there is one very vocal host who keeps shouting at everyone to please use her as an example of the best, legitimate host, ever: She only has one listing, one bedroom in her 2 bedroom condo. She is very anti multi-listing, evil hosts and she thought those should be made illegal. Never mind that Airbnb started as an illegal company itself. Oh and she would never, ever, host a second house as an STR because she is all about providing housing to all who needs it. Ha, let's see what would happen if she somehow could afford purchasing that second home. Or maybe with that kind of negative thoughts towards those who are able, she would never get that kind of luck. Deborah, I'd look forward reading your blog the Airbnb and the affordable housing crisis. I agree, not sure why we re made villains just for working hard and be able to purchase homes to rent out. I'm not sure why tenants are so against landlords either. There won't be tenants if there are no landlords. But nevermind common sense. Apparently you could be very vocal without some.
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Post by jessa on Dec 16, 2015 1:33:15 GMT
I'm surprised by the meta-data releases and how little hosts (allegedly) make. But if governments and city regulators find the perfect airbnb host to be the kind of person who pushes herself/himself just barely out of poverty levels by occasionally renting out the spare bedroom, then fine by me. The report released on Belgium even sparked a potential reform - there is a government proposal to de-regulate all side income activities, no taxes and no government hawking over you - this would include airbnb and uber. I dont believe for a second that the average Belgian host makes, what was it, 2900 euro/year? Even in the capital of Europe, Brussels, it was just over 3000. I make (self-censored)*more than that and surely I'm no exception... well whatever works best for regulators I suppose.
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Post by High Priestess on Dec 16, 2015 3:31:47 GMT
I do believe Jessa that when Airbnb releases data, it "spins" the data, in terms of what it chooses to present and how. As I mentioned above, there seems to be a prevalant political/social view, (1) that Airbnb hosts should not actually be making much money - they should be hosting guests because they like meeting people from around the world, or because they get lonely and want company, etc. and (2) the prevalent social/political view that there is something not so admirable about people who make money from rental property -- "landlords" get a bad name everywhere, and those who are "hosts" and not landlords are faring even worse than landlords in many regions in the public view as they are "taking units off the rental market."
I think Airbnb's release of data is with awareness of this political atmosphere, and so they try to spin the data to make it look like hosts earn rather little, which fits with the virtuous position of being a host to meet people, not to enter the business of renting out property. And to listen to the chatter of some petty bureaucrats in some city council rooms, God forbid anyone should actually be "running a business" as an Airbnb host!! The horror!
So, the data presented is sure to include every host who signed up but never actually had a guest (and then unlisted again) and so on -- all the hosts we would actually call "not really a host" are sure to be avidly sought after to achieve data which drives median host income downward.
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