Post by High Priestess on Nov 19, 2015 22:41:22 GMT
This post appeared on the Brooklyn HOsting collective, here:
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-190438
The removal of this hosts' listings by Airbnb seems to have been in error, apparently because Airbnb thought she didn't live in the property. Airbnb is removing listings of hosts listing entire units, if it seems they do not live there, to appease the very very aggressive NYC government:
Angela shared Nov 16 2015
Airbnb Listings taken down !
I live in a 2 family. Last week I got a call from a +34 area code. Guy said he worked for Airbnb and that he would have to take my listings down. Not all, just the one that is a full apartment. I was upset to say the least. He never really explained why and I've contacted the company to find out if this was a prank of some sort. You would think that they would contact me Nothing. This definitely erodes my trust in the company. It's this how they would respond if I really needed to use their insurance Or worse ?? Not coolb at all. I'm sure this has something to do with those hearings happening at City Hall. Please email me offline to hear the rest of what the caller told me. After he said this, I wasn't nearly as upset !! (email hidden)>
Angela
25 comments
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Michael
Michael3 days ago
Hello this happen to me as well
Reply Like 2 replies
Angela
Angela3 days ago
Michael, I would ask you to email me offline to let you know what the workaround for this is. It's Brooklyn area code kids at Google's mail server Angela
Erin
Erina day ago
Me too Angela. Can you contact me so we can share our experiences offline?
Christina
Christina3 days ago
It seems all the affected hosts are Bed-Stuy. Any reason? Has there been community pushback?
Reply Like
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
Angela,
Why don't you just share the rest of the conversation here?
Reply Like
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
The pushback will always be the same, there is not enough housing left in the city for the number of people who want to live here, so if you are hoarding properties for airbnb, it's going to make all of us look bad.
Reply Like
Viktoria
Viktoria3 days ago
It's happening in Manhattan as well
Reply Like
Viktoria
Viktoria3 days ago
FYI - I am starting to receive inquiries from discouraged guests who's accounts seem to have disappeared without notice.
Reply Like 1 reply
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
I'm certainly not complaining. Other people getting shut down has helped me be booked solid for the first time all year. There is far less competition than there was this time last year, when my November and December had spotty bookings.
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
This is what the debate is all about. I think PBS explains it the best: www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/will-new-york-city-shut-airbnb-2/
Reply Like 2 replies
Rosemary
Rosemary3 days ago
Interesting video got me thinking of how bizarre the law is ...now the state would be happy to pay landlords enormous sums to take in section 8
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
Section 8 incentivizes buying properties in underprivileged areas. I know investors that are doing quite well with section 8. With how much more affordable properties are in such areas, it has me at least considering it.
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
Angela, I just checked your listings and I suspect you got shut down because you did not expressly state that you live in the property, so to the casual eye, it could look like you do not live at the property.
Reply Like 2 replies
Angela
Angela3 days ago
Hi O.D., thanks for mentioning that. Where do I get to state that I live here ?
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
I just wrote it in throughout my listing. There isn't a particular place to put it. But, you should def call airbnb to clear things up.
Angela
Angela3 days ago
Thanks O.D. !!
Reply Like
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
First of all, I thought 2-family homes were exempt. Shouldn't yours be exempt whether you live there or not?
Reply Like
Angela
Angela2 days ago
That's what I thought. I live in a 2 family but they said only the shared unit could be listed. I'm still confused !
Angela
Reply Like
Rosemary
Rosemary2 days ago
We called airbnb they said that you must live there.
Reply Like
Viktoria
Viktoria2 days ago
NYC is cracking down in a major way 10 million dollar way. They plan to fine hosts 50k-100k which would be a big money earner. It looks like Airbnb is looking out for hosts and shutting them down, or, they are being forced to shut down hosts:
www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-spend-10m-crack-illegal-hotels-article(phone number hidden)
Reply Like
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
Here's what I found online: "The Multiple Dwelling Law does not prevent short-term rentals—whether hosted or not---in “class B” buildings—primarily one- and two-family homes. However, such rentals could violate other laws." I looked and found NYC administrative code (phone number hidden) governing change of use or occupancy group. If going from long-term rental to short term constitutes changing use or occupancy group, and your building's Cert. of Occupancy doesn't allow for short-term, than class B buildings violate this code.
Reply Like 2 replies
Angela
Angela2 days ago
Thanks Lilian for looking that up. I already knew that because I went to that hearing two weeks ago and they explicitly said this doesn't apply to 1-2 family dwellings. Maybe they made a mistake ? They did a poor job of explaining their rationale. .Angela
Erin
Erina day ago
Exactly -- that is my confusion too. I thought 2 families were exempt from all of this.
Angela
Angela2 days ago
I'm not sure why they did this then. It will all make sense soon, I'm sure.
Reply Like 1 like
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
Hi Angela,
I'm going to try to reach you offline. I have a two-family in Manhattan. Thanks for posting your story.
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like
Angela
Angela2 days ago
Yes, please let me know how you would like to contact me. Angela
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
I tried Brooklynareacodekids at google's email but it didn't go through.
Reply Like
Angela
Angela2 days ago
Seven one eight kids at Google Mail dot com. Type in the numbers spelled out then the word kids.
Reply Like
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
I think you are all losing sight of the issue. There is not enough housing in NYC to begin with, so when people start gobbling up properties just to use for vacation rentals, you can foresee the PR nightmares this creates for airbnb. As far as I know, they are the only vacation rental site that does not require you to own the property that you are renting, which is one point of contention if you live in an apartment building and see a stream of strangers coming in and out. The second issue involves people who own multiple properties, which they use only for vacation rentals without paying any fees or taxes related to being a hotel/bed and breakfast. This is when things cross the line, when you own a property just for short term rentals, but you don't live in it.
So, if the rules aren't officially on the books now, then I'm sure they will be in the near future. It's one thing if you live in your own building and you are providing that homely "engaged" experience which airbnb loves to market, but it's another if you buy separate buildings that house nothing but short-term rentals, which further complicate housing in NYC. With that said, Angela I sympathize with you, but not with all the other people who having multiple properties who are complaining of being victimized. Even if you are not allowed to do airbnb in those properties, I'm sure they'd make out fine just renting units as normal.
Reply Like 2 replies•1 like
Michael
Michaela day ago
O.D I got it.. I truly understand your point. I didn't buy properties to do short term rentals. the last property I purchase was in 2006 it took me 3 years to get non-paying tenants out. 3 years back and forth to court thousands of dollars later in legal fees.I had to shell out 50,000 to get them out. What I am saying is where was the law, A.G and all these advocates for people like myself. I started hosting in 2013. I have own properties in bedstuy since 1992.
Michael
Michaela day ago
If Airbnb was around in the 90's no one would I have cared if Bedford Stuyvesant was short of rental or not. I would appreciated if Airbnb had told me from the start.
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
I see all those issues, O.D. I own the building where I live and where I have a listing. To be brutally honest, if I couldn't do airbnb anymore and had to have a long-term tenant, I wouldn't put my property in the "affordable housing" category anyway. I would want the highest rent I could possibly get. I'm a landlord and I want the biggest investment I've ever made to pay off. I also realize I am not the main target, but not everyone is fortunate enough to be a landlord.
Having said that, I support other Airbnb hosts who may be in a different situation. I support transparency between hosts and landlords and reasonable law-making. My guests get a great deal by not paying stunningly high hotel rates, and they spend that money on shopping, restaurants and local businesses. I know because I have to empty out the dozens of shopping bags and boxes they leave behind! Even if you don't directly benefit from Airbnb, there are indirect benefits to everyone in the city that I think opponents lose sight of. Every average New Yorker is squeezed by high rental rates, and some of us turn to Airbnb to help get by. We shouldn't be fighting each other. What about foreigners who buy NYC properties and never set foot in them?? Why doesn't diBlasio fight that??
Reply Like 1 reply•2 likes
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
Lilian foreign buyers are not a strong argument because they are not competing with hotels/bnbs plus the average renter is either not looking to buy or cannot afford to buy the luxury properties that these buyers are gobbling up. As far as I know, they seem to be going after luxury condos rather than a townhouse with rental unit. Even if they buy such as townhouse, they are probably so rich that they'd covert it into a single family home anyways. These are effectively properties that were never going to be on the market for rentals anyways. Although, I'm an airbnb Super Host, I see both sides of the argument. The simple solution is to tax people who have properties just for short term rentals, as if they were bnbs. I would also be fine to charge us hosts a tax that airbnb collects.
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
It's my understanding that foreign buyers buy all types of properties, only the luxury condos are written up in the news. There are RE agents in my area that specifically cater to foreign buyers and act as leasing agents after purchase, so you bet they help to drive up the cost of properties.
The point I really want to make is that it's a shame when struggling average New Yorkers are fighting each other when they have a common problem. The actions of a few exploitive entrepreneurs on Airbnb hurts the hosts and non-hosts who live and work here and are just trying to get by.
Reply Like 2 replies•1 like
Christina
Christina2 days ago
The problem is that is you are buying a multi-dwelling property with the sole purpose of using it for short-term rentals, you are not a home but a business and need to register as such. You can become a real bnb and register and file and the like. Living in a house and renting out 1-2 rooms does not violate NYC law. Those hosts live in their houses and do this usually as extra income. Before Airbnb, i rented bedrooms to CUNY professors who needed a place to stay during thr academic year so they didn't want to lease an apartment that the wouldn't use 4 months a year. As OD said, the problem is Airbnb casts itself as just regular people renting out rooms to make ends meet and guests get this unique NY experience, but the money maker listings don't conform to this spin. Airbnb is doing it to protect itself and hosts that could get in trouble. The criticism they are receiving in NY is that Airbnb is saying it's just a few bad actors and then the lawmakers say then why don't you kick off ones who are threatening affordable housing and the like.
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
Well said Christina. I was trying to convey that, but I did not do is as eloquently as you did. I think people like Lilian are making the mistake of lumping us all in with those greedy bastards.
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
Goodness, O.D. You have misread my comments big time. When I said the 'few exploitive entrepreneurs' I meant the people Christina was talking about, the 'bad actors.' How many times have I mentioned Airbnb hosts using income from their listings to get by??? Twice. Gees.
Reply Like 1 reply
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
I may have misread your comments as supporting hosting of any sort, since you kept rebutting all my comments, particularly: "Having said that, I support other Airbnb hosts who may be in a different situation. I support transparency between hosts and landlords and reasonable law-making. " I guess we were both essentially saying the same thing.
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
I meant I support hosts who don't own the buildings they live in, but are renting and living there. I support transparency in that I don't think those hosts should be sneaking around, hosting with out the owners' knowledge or consent. As a landlord, I would want to know if my tenant was hosting. I definitely don't support hosting of any sort. I just think there are many reasons for the high cost of housing in NYC but IMHO somehow Airbnb gets a disproportionate amount of attention from the city.
Reply Like 3 replies
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
I don't think they'd get the same level of attention if they required you to own your property like other vacation rental services, which are not the focus of these attacks. I think airbnb was way too hands off till it blew up in their face. Some of these other services actually require you to scan a copy of your mortgage or title, to prove that you own the property. Others, also require bills to show that you live there. There are some interesting grey areas, though, like if you have a weekend home. Should you not be able to rent out your NYC residence when you are at your home outside NYC, or vice versa?
Christina
Christinaa day ago
Technically Airbnb portrays itself as a homesharing site, not a vacation rental site. And i agree Airbnb gets too much attention. Airbnb is not illegal but sometimes how it is used can be. All the other sites like flipkey, VRBO, etc. have the same issues in NYC but thd media and politicians focus on them because Airbnb is the most successful platform. My feeling from all the meetings that I gave attended concerning Airbnb over the last few years is that they were very naive and dismissive and like OD said, it wasn't until it blew up un their faces, that they tried to do anything and what they did was reactive. I think they should actually meet and/or call a host whose listing they are deactivating before they do it.
O.D.
O.D.a day ago
Christina, I fully agree that they should call before shutting down a listing. A home owner should at least get a chance to explain their side of things, and offer evidence to prove otherwise. It's strange to me that they are using the approach that they are using. In the past they have sent emails that link to a website or article with more information for any initiatives or major announcements. This makes me think that they are under an extreme amount of pressure to comply otherwise they are going to be penalized aggressively.
Christina
Christinaa day ago
There are differences between building codes and occuosncy codes. For residential, one families are Class A buildings and are classified A0-A9 based on style of building. Class B are 2 families and are classified as brick, frsme, converted from a 1 family or misc. Class C are walk-ups. Class D are elevator apartments. Class R are an array. Realtors use Class A to mean premier, with B and C as lesser properties. It gets confusing. Multiple Dwelling does not apply to 1 and 2 families because they are not multiple dwellings. Check NYS Senator Liz Krueger's site. She explicitly states that it does not apply to 1 and 2 families where hosts live with guests. She drafted the law so she should know.
Reply Like
Christina
Christinaa day ago
According to the NYS Multiple Dwelling Law, a building is not "multiple" until it has 3 or more unrelated families living in the same building. A private dwelling can have up to 4 boarders/lodgers/roomers in addition to household members.
Reply Like 3 replies
O.D.
O.D.a day ago
Christina what about if you purchase a two family home, but you do not live in it? Where does such a property fit into the definitions? Can someone use such a property for airbnb without living within it? Or, is this another grey area?
Christina
Christinaa day ago
I would say that is a gray area. This is my opinion only. According to the law, you are supposed to be living in the property. You might be able to set it up as a registered bnb but the mood in the city right now is that residents not visitors should be living there. If you have cool neighbors and you are a responsible host, you will probably fly under the radar UNLESS it gets picked up because it is "entire apt". I would actually consult with a real estate attorney if you are thinking of doing this. The norm is buying buildings and multifamilies to rent to regular tenants. If you are in a neighborhood with group homes and sober houses, you will have better luck. If you are mostly families living in the houses, you will draw more attention. It's not a risk i personally would take without registering as a business.
O.D.
O.D.a day ago
It's definitely just a hypothetical for me. If anything, Jersey City has become much more attractive since home sharing is legal with the new the tax that they have implemented. My goal would be to rent out a few units to tenants on a lease and to use one for a vacation rental. The properties tend to be much cheaper there anyways.
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-190438
The removal of this hosts' listings by Airbnb seems to have been in error, apparently because Airbnb thought she didn't live in the property. Airbnb is removing listings of hosts listing entire units, if it seems they do not live there, to appease the very very aggressive NYC government:
Angela shared Nov 16 2015
Airbnb Listings taken down !
I live in a 2 family. Last week I got a call from a +34 area code. Guy said he worked for Airbnb and that he would have to take my listings down. Not all, just the one that is a full apartment. I was upset to say the least. He never really explained why and I've contacted the company to find out if this was a prank of some sort. You would think that they would contact me Nothing. This definitely erodes my trust in the company. It's this how they would respond if I really needed to use their insurance Or worse ?? Not coolb at all. I'm sure this has something to do with those hearings happening at City Hall. Please email me offline to hear the rest of what the caller told me. After he said this, I wasn't nearly as upset !! (email hidden)>
Angela
25 comments
Follow
Like
Michael
Michael3 days ago
Hello this happen to me as well
Reply Like 2 replies
Angela
Angela3 days ago
Michael, I would ask you to email me offline to let you know what the workaround for this is. It's Brooklyn area code kids at Google's mail server Angela
Erin
Erina day ago
Me too Angela. Can you contact me so we can share our experiences offline?
Christina
Christina3 days ago
It seems all the affected hosts are Bed-Stuy. Any reason? Has there been community pushback?
Reply Like
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
Angela,
Why don't you just share the rest of the conversation here?
Reply Like
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
The pushback will always be the same, there is not enough housing left in the city for the number of people who want to live here, so if you are hoarding properties for airbnb, it's going to make all of us look bad.
Reply Like
Viktoria
Viktoria3 days ago
It's happening in Manhattan as well
Reply Like
Viktoria
Viktoria3 days ago
FYI - I am starting to receive inquiries from discouraged guests who's accounts seem to have disappeared without notice.
Reply Like 1 reply
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
I'm certainly not complaining. Other people getting shut down has helped me be booked solid for the first time all year. There is far less competition than there was this time last year, when my November and December had spotty bookings.
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
This is what the debate is all about. I think PBS explains it the best: www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/will-new-york-city-shut-airbnb-2/
Reply Like 2 replies
Rosemary
Rosemary3 days ago
Interesting video got me thinking of how bizarre the law is ...now the state would be happy to pay landlords enormous sums to take in section 8
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
Section 8 incentivizes buying properties in underprivileged areas. I know investors that are doing quite well with section 8. With how much more affordable properties are in such areas, it has me at least considering it.
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
Angela, I just checked your listings and I suspect you got shut down because you did not expressly state that you live in the property, so to the casual eye, it could look like you do not live at the property.
Reply Like 2 replies
Angela
Angela3 days ago
Hi O.D., thanks for mentioning that. Where do I get to state that I live here ?
O.D.
O.D.3 days ago
I just wrote it in throughout my listing. There isn't a particular place to put it. But, you should def call airbnb to clear things up.
Angela
Angela3 days ago
Thanks O.D. !!
Reply Like
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
First of all, I thought 2-family homes were exempt. Shouldn't yours be exempt whether you live there or not?
Reply Like
Angela
Angela2 days ago
That's what I thought. I live in a 2 family but they said only the shared unit could be listed. I'm still confused !
Angela
Reply Like
Rosemary
Rosemary2 days ago
We called airbnb they said that you must live there.
Reply Like
Viktoria
Viktoria2 days ago
NYC is cracking down in a major way 10 million dollar way. They plan to fine hosts 50k-100k which would be a big money earner. It looks like Airbnb is looking out for hosts and shutting them down, or, they are being forced to shut down hosts:
www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-spend-10m-crack-illegal-hotels-article(phone number hidden)
Reply Like
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
Here's what I found online: "The Multiple Dwelling Law does not prevent short-term rentals—whether hosted or not---in “class B” buildings—primarily one- and two-family homes. However, such rentals could violate other laws." I looked and found NYC administrative code (phone number hidden) governing change of use or occupancy group. If going from long-term rental to short term constitutes changing use or occupancy group, and your building's Cert. of Occupancy doesn't allow for short-term, than class B buildings violate this code.
Reply Like 2 replies
Angela
Angela2 days ago
Thanks Lilian for looking that up. I already knew that because I went to that hearing two weeks ago and they explicitly said this doesn't apply to 1-2 family dwellings. Maybe they made a mistake ? They did a poor job of explaining their rationale. .Angela
Erin
Erina day ago
Exactly -- that is my confusion too. I thought 2 families were exempt from all of this.
Angela
Angela2 days ago
I'm not sure why they did this then. It will all make sense soon, I'm sure.
Reply Like 1 like
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
Hi Angela,
I'm going to try to reach you offline. I have a two-family in Manhattan. Thanks for posting your story.
Reply Like 1 reply•1 like
Angela
Angela2 days ago
Yes, please let me know how you would like to contact me. Angela
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
I tried Brooklynareacodekids at google's email but it didn't go through.
Reply Like
Angela
Angela2 days ago
Seven one eight kids at Google Mail dot com. Type in the numbers spelled out then the word kids.
Reply Like
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
I think you are all losing sight of the issue. There is not enough housing in NYC to begin with, so when people start gobbling up properties just to use for vacation rentals, you can foresee the PR nightmares this creates for airbnb. As far as I know, they are the only vacation rental site that does not require you to own the property that you are renting, which is one point of contention if you live in an apartment building and see a stream of strangers coming in and out. The second issue involves people who own multiple properties, which they use only for vacation rentals without paying any fees or taxes related to being a hotel/bed and breakfast. This is when things cross the line, when you own a property just for short term rentals, but you don't live in it.
So, if the rules aren't officially on the books now, then I'm sure they will be in the near future. It's one thing if you live in your own building and you are providing that homely "engaged" experience which airbnb loves to market, but it's another if you buy separate buildings that house nothing but short-term rentals, which further complicate housing in NYC. With that said, Angela I sympathize with you, but not with all the other people who having multiple properties who are complaining of being victimized. Even if you are not allowed to do airbnb in those properties, I'm sure they'd make out fine just renting units as normal.
Reply Like 2 replies•1 like
Michael
Michaela day ago
O.D I got it.. I truly understand your point. I didn't buy properties to do short term rentals. the last property I purchase was in 2006 it took me 3 years to get non-paying tenants out. 3 years back and forth to court thousands of dollars later in legal fees.I had to shell out 50,000 to get them out. What I am saying is where was the law, A.G and all these advocates for people like myself. I started hosting in 2013. I have own properties in bedstuy since 1992.
Michael
Michaela day ago
If Airbnb was around in the 90's no one would I have cared if Bedford Stuyvesant was short of rental or not. I would appreciated if Airbnb had told me from the start.
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
I see all those issues, O.D. I own the building where I live and where I have a listing. To be brutally honest, if I couldn't do airbnb anymore and had to have a long-term tenant, I wouldn't put my property in the "affordable housing" category anyway. I would want the highest rent I could possibly get. I'm a landlord and I want the biggest investment I've ever made to pay off. I also realize I am not the main target, but not everyone is fortunate enough to be a landlord.
Having said that, I support other Airbnb hosts who may be in a different situation. I support transparency between hosts and landlords and reasonable law-making. My guests get a great deal by not paying stunningly high hotel rates, and they spend that money on shopping, restaurants and local businesses. I know because I have to empty out the dozens of shopping bags and boxes they leave behind! Even if you don't directly benefit from Airbnb, there are indirect benefits to everyone in the city that I think opponents lose sight of. Every average New Yorker is squeezed by high rental rates, and some of us turn to Airbnb to help get by. We shouldn't be fighting each other. What about foreigners who buy NYC properties and never set foot in them?? Why doesn't diBlasio fight that??
Reply Like 1 reply•2 likes
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
Lilian foreign buyers are not a strong argument because they are not competing with hotels/bnbs plus the average renter is either not looking to buy or cannot afford to buy the luxury properties that these buyers are gobbling up. As far as I know, they seem to be going after luxury condos rather than a townhouse with rental unit. Even if they buy such as townhouse, they are probably so rich that they'd covert it into a single family home anyways. These are effectively properties that were never going to be on the market for rentals anyways. Although, I'm an airbnb Super Host, I see both sides of the argument. The simple solution is to tax people who have properties just for short term rentals, as if they were bnbs. I would also be fine to charge us hosts a tax that airbnb collects.
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
It's my understanding that foreign buyers buy all types of properties, only the luxury condos are written up in the news. There are RE agents in my area that specifically cater to foreign buyers and act as leasing agents after purchase, so you bet they help to drive up the cost of properties.
The point I really want to make is that it's a shame when struggling average New Yorkers are fighting each other when they have a common problem. The actions of a few exploitive entrepreneurs on Airbnb hurts the hosts and non-hosts who live and work here and are just trying to get by.
Reply Like 2 replies•1 like
Christina
Christina2 days ago
The problem is that is you are buying a multi-dwelling property with the sole purpose of using it for short-term rentals, you are not a home but a business and need to register as such. You can become a real bnb and register and file and the like. Living in a house and renting out 1-2 rooms does not violate NYC law. Those hosts live in their houses and do this usually as extra income. Before Airbnb, i rented bedrooms to CUNY professors who needed a place to stay during thr academic year so they didn't want to lease an apartment that the wouldn't use 4 months a year. As OD said, the problem is Airbnb casts itself as just regular people renting out rooms to make ends meet and guests get this unique NY experience, but the money maker listings don't conform to this spin. Airbnb is doing it to protect itself and hosts that could get in trouble. The criticism they are receiving in NY is that Airbnb is saying it's just a few bad actors and then the lawmakers say then why don't you kick off ones who are threatening affordable housing and the like.
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
Well said Christina. I was trying to convey that, but I did not do is as eloquently as you did. I think people like Lilian are making the mistake of lumping us all in with those greedy bastards.
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
Goodness, O.D. You have misread my comments big time. When I said the 'few exploitive entrepreneurs' I meant the people Christina was talking about, the 'bad actors.' How many times have I mentioned Airbnb hosts using income from their listings to get by??? Twice. Gees.
Reply Like 1 reply
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
I may have misread your comments as supporting hosting of any sort, since you kept rebutting all my comments, particularly: "Having said that, I support other Airbnb hosts who may be in a different situation. I support transparency between hosts and landlords and reasonable law-making. " I guess we were both essentially saying the same thing.
Lilian
Lilian2 days ago
I meant I support hosts who don't own the buildings they live in, but are renting and living there. I support transparency in that I don't think those hosts should be sneaking around, hosting with out the owners' knowledge or consent. As a landlord, I would want to know if my tenant was hosting. I definitely don't support hosting of any sort. I just think there are many reasons for the high cost of housing in NYC but IMHO somehow Airbnb gets a disproportionate amount of attention from the city.
Reply Like 3 replies
O.D.
O.D.2 days ago
I don't think they'd get the same level of attention if they required you to own your property like other vacation rental services, which are not the focus of these attacks. I think airbnb was way too hands off till it blew up in their face. Some of these other services actually require you to scan a copy of your mortgage or title, to prove that you own the property. Others, also require bills to show that you live there. There are some interesting grey areas, though, like if you have a weekend home. Should you not be able to rent out your NYC residence when you are at your home outside NYC, or vice versa?
Christina
Christinaa day ago
Technically Airbnb portrays itself as a homesharing site, not a vacation rental site. And i agree Airbnb gets too much attention. Airbnb is not illegal but sometimes how it is used can be. All the other sites like flipkey, VRBO, etc. have the same issues in NYC but thd media and politicians focus on them because Airbnb is the most successful platform. My feeling from all the meetings that I gave attended concerning Airbnb over the last few years is that they were very naive and dismissive and like OD said, it wasn't until it blew up un their faces, that they tried to do anything and what they did was reactive. I think they should actually meet and/or call a host whose listing they are deactivating before they do it.
O.D.
O.D.a day ago
Christina, I fully agree that they should call before shutting down a listing. A home owner should at least get a chance to explain their side of things, and offer evidence to prove otherwise. It's strange to me that they are using the approach that they are using. In the past they have sent emails that link to a website or article with more information for any initiatives or major announcements. This makes me think that they are under an extreme amount of pressure to comply otherwise they are going to be penalized aggressively.
Christina
Christinaa day ago
There are differences between building codes and occuosncy codes. For residential, one families are Class A buildings and are classified A0-A9 based on style of building. Class B are 2 families and are classified as brick, frsme, converted from a 1 family or misc. Class C are walk-ups. Class D are elevator apartments. Class R are an array. Realtors use Class A to mean premier, with B and C as lesser properties. It gets confusing. Multiple Dwelling does not apply to 1 and 2 families because they are not multiple dwellings. Check NYS Senator Liz Krueger's site. She explicitly states that it does not apply to 1 and 2 families where hosts live with guests. She drafted the law so she should know.
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Christina
Christinaa day ago
According to the NYS Multiple Dwelling Law, a building is not "multiple" until it has 3 or more unrelated families living in the same building. A private dwelling can have up to 4 boarders/lodgers/roomers in addition to household members.
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O.D.
O.D.a day ago
Christina what about if you purchase a two family home, but you do not live in it? Where does such a property fit into the definitions? Can someone use such a property for airbnb without living within it? Or, is this another grey area?
Christina
Christinaa day ago
I would say that is a gray area. This is my opinion only. According to the law, you are supposed to be living in the property. You might be able to set it up as a registered bnb but the mood in the city right now is that residents not visitors should be living there. If you have cool neighbors and you are a responsible host, you will probably fly under the radar UNLESS it gets picked up because it is "entire apt". I would actually consult with a real estate attorney if you are thinking of doing this. The norm is buying buildings and multifamilies to rent to regular tenants. If you are in a neighborhood with group homes and sober houses, you will have better luck. If you are mostly families living in the houses, you will draw more attention. It's not a risk i personally would take without registering as a business.
O.D.
O.D.a day ago
It's definitely just a hypothetical for me. If anything, Jersey City has become much more attractive since home sharing is legal with the new the tax that they have implemented. My goal would be to rent out a few units to tenants on a lease and to use one for a vacation rental. The properties tend to be much cheaper there anyways.