Post by High Priestess on Oct 23, 2015 1:26:00 GMT
This is a question that I have seen arise numerous times in the host community, and I imagine those broaching it are invariably, perhaps even painfully, aware of the delicacy of their question. The stories are each different, but there are some similar themes.
Hosting as a tenant in NYC?
Tina and Laura are hosts. They have a 2 bedroom apartment in Queens, in New York City. They originally started out as roommates each occupying one bedroom in their 2 bedroom apartment, but then when Airbnb came along, they heard that some of their friends were making a good income renting out a bedroom on Airbnb. Their rent is high, and they could use the extra income. So they got Tina's bedroom set up as a guest room, and moved most of Tina's things into Laura's room and the living room, and then listed the bedroom on Airbnb. They were amazed at how popular their place was -- they got a lot of bookings. When they had bookings, Tina and Laura would either stay in the same bedroom, or Tina would sleep on the sofa in the living room. They would have usually about 10 to 15 days booked each month.
There was one little issue, and it was a delicate one. THey hadn't asked their landlord for permission to have AIrbnb guests, and their rental agreement said "no subletting." Tina and Laura didn't actually know what was the exact meaning of " subletting". They had asked their friend Brian, and he said that it was subletting when you rented out your place while you were away, like on vacation, but if you were still staying in your own apartment while the guest was there, that wasn't subletting and it was okay. Apart from that, their landlord was a big time landlord with a lot of properties and they hardly ever saw or heard from him, and so they thought, what he doesn't know won't hurt him. In fact one of their friends, Lisa, also had an apartment in Queens, and was Airbnb-ing it, and she also had a lease that said "no subletting" and she said she thought her landlord actually didn't care if she had guests. LIsa had said her landlord saw some of her guests arriving with her a couple times, and he didn't say or ask anything, so she thought all was cool.
But Tina and Laura just heard another story, about Jim, a tenant host in Brooklyn, who got an eviction notice from his landlord when the landlord found out he was doing Airbnb hosting. Jim tried to fight the eviction but was not successful, and is having to move out of his rent controlled apartment he has been in for 12 years. Now Tina and Laura are scared and wonder what to do. They definitely don't want to get evicted. They thought of asking their landlord if it was okay to do, but were worried he would say no. Or he might ask if they've been hosting already. Tina and Laura think some of the other tenants in their building know that they are doing Airbnb hosting (their immediate neighbor does) but they don't know if any others in their building (a 60 unit building) are hosts.
So Tina comes to the host community to ask advice about what to do in this situation. What would your advice be?
HEre is a real life question of this type, that appeared in the Airbnb host groups in October 2015:
Diana asked:
Please Help! Illegal airbnb in NY?
I live in NY and i would like to know if it is illegal to rent my extra room in airbnb? I'm not the owner but would like to help to pay my rent! Anyone can help. I know is a lot of cases about it. The city in some way is protecting us? The landlord can do something bad to me? Please I appreciate if someone can help me! Thank you.
love.
Deborah
HI Diana
So there are two levels to your question. The first level is as regards your city itself, New York City, and its laws. The second is as regards your landord, and your rental agreement with your landlord. None of us know what your rental agreement says or what your landlord's position is on his/her tenants subletting via Airbnb. So we can't help you with that. You would either have to read your rental agreement, ask your landlord directly, or perhaps talk to other tenants in your building who know about this landlords' policies, both literal and "actual." Some landlords have things in their rental agreements that they don't strictly enforce -- for instance, I once rented an apartment in a building where the rental agreements said, "no pets." There was a woman in that building who had a dog, and two cats, and it was very clear that the landlord knew that she had pets and was not intending to enforce the no pets policy. That said, I also have heard of several cases of tenants whose rental agreements said, "no subletting", and they rented out one of their rooms on AIrbnb, and ended up evicted by their landlord for doing so. So, there is a range of risks and none of us can know where you are in that range. Then too, I know of several cases where a tenant had a rental agreement that said "no subletting" and they started doing Airbnb hosting in spite of that, and their landlord found out and issued them a "3 day Notice to Cure or Quit" which basically means, they have to stop hosting in 3 days (meaning, they have to cancel ALL the upcoming reservations they have, immediately) or else they can be evicted. If they cease hosting immediately, they will not be evicted.
On the other hand, there are also many tenants who are blessed to have landlords who give them permission to host in their rented apartment or house. I personally know 5 such tenant hosts. So, some landlords are generous and allow this. Even in those cases, however, if their apartment is rent controlled, those tenant hosts are, by city law, not allowed to rent out their space for more than they themselves pay in rent, or for more than their proportionate rent. Meaning, if a rent controlled tenant has a 2 bedroom apartment for which he pays $1500 in rent, he cannot make more than $750 a month from renting out one of those bedrooms on Airbnb, nor more than $1500 a month from renting out his whole apartment on Airbnb, (if for instance he goes on vacation). Tenants who are not in units subject to rent control do not have those limits placed on their income. Hence, for tenants in rent controlled units, there is not much incentive to rent out on Airbnb, unless the desire is to make the same income but with fewer days of roommate present. Eg if you can make the same income in 15 days with a part time roommate as in 30 days with a full time roommate, it may be nice to take the former and have more time to yourself in your unit.
As far as city law, New York city allows you to rent a room in your apartment or home AS LONG AS that apartment is your primary residence AND you are present when the guest is there. THere are several NYC Airbnb groups where there is a lot of info on NYC laws about Airbnb hosting, too, if you want to check those out.
If it isn't obvious, your rental agreement with your landlord trumps city law. So, what that means is, even if NYC law says that people can rent out a room in their residence if they live there and are present when guest is there, tenants cannot do this if their landlord prohibits it.
Hosting as a tenant in NYC?Tina and Laura are hosts. They have a 2 bedroom apartment in Queens, in New York City. They originally started out as roommates each occupying one bedroom in their 2 bedroom apartment, but then when Airbnb came along, they heard that some of their friends were making a good income renting out a bedroom on Airbnb. Their rent is high, and they could use the extra income. So they got Tina's bedroom set up as a guest room, and moved most of Tina's things into Laura's room and the living room, and then listed the bedroom on Airbnb. They were amazed at how popular their place was -- they got a lot of bookings. When they had bookings, Tina and Laura would either stay in the same bedroom, or Tina would sleep on the sofa in the living room. They would have usually about 10 to 15 days booked each month.
There was one little issue, and it was a delicate one. THey hadn't asked their landlord for permission to have AIrbnb guests, and their rental agreement said "no subletting." Tina and Laura didn't actually know what was the exact meaning of " subletting". They had asked their friend Brian, and he said that it was subletting when you rented out your place while you were away, like on vacation, but if you were still staying in your own apartment while the guest was there, that wasn't subletting and it was okay. Apart from that, their landlord was a big time landlord with a lot of properties and they hardly ever saw or heard from him, and so they thought, what he doesn't know won't hurt him. In fact one of their friends, Lisa, also had an apartment in Queens, and was Airbnb-ing it, and she also had a lease that said "no subletting" and she said she thought her landlord actually didn't care if she had guests. LIsa had said her landlord saw some of her guests arriving with her a couple times, and he didn't say or ask anything, so she thought all was cool.
But Tina and Laura just heard another story, about Jim, a tenant host in Brooklyn, who got an eviction notice from his landlord when the landlord found out he was doing Airbnb hosting. Jim tried to fight the eviction but was not successful, and is having to move out of his rent controlled apartment he has been in for 12 years. Now Tina and Laura are scared and wonder what to do. They definitely don't want to get evicted. They thought of asking their landlord if it was okay to do, but were worried he would say no. Or he might ask if they've been hosting already. Tina and Laura think some of the other tenants in their building know that they are doing Airbnb hosting (their immediate neighbor does) but they don't know if any others in their building (a 60 unit building) are hosts.
So Tina comes to the host community to ask advice about what to do in this situation. What would your advice be?
HEre is a real life question of this type, that appeared in the Airbnb host groups in October 2015:
Diana asked:
Please Help! Illegal airbnb in NY?
I live in NY and i would like to know if it is illegal to rent my extra room in airbnb? I'm not the owner but would like to help to pay my rent! Anyone can help. I know is a lot of cases about it. The city in some way is protecting us? The landlord can do something bad to me? Please I appreciate if someone can help me! Thank you.
love.Deborah
HI Diana
So there are two levels to your question. The first level is as regards your city itself, New York City, and its laws. The second is as regards your landord, and your rental agreement with your landlord. None of us know what your rental agreement says or what your landlord's position is on his/her tenants subletting via Airbnb. So we can't help you with that. You would either have to read your rental agreement, ask your landlord directly, or perhaps talk to other tenants in your building who know about this landlords' policies, both literal and "actual." Some landlords have things in their rental agreements that they don't strictly enforce -- for instance, I once rented an apartment in a building where the rental agreements said, "no pets." There was a woman in that building who had a dog, and two cats, and it was very clear that the landlord knew that she had pets and was not intending to enforce the no pets policy. That said, I also have heard of several cases of tenants whose rental agreements said, "no subletting", and they rented out one of their rooms on AIrbnb, and ended up evicted by their landlord for doing so. So, there is a range of risks and none of us can know where you are in that range. Then too, I know of several cases where a tenant had a rental agreement that said "no subletting" and they started doing Airbnb hosting in spite of that, and their landlord found out and issued them a "3 day Notice to Cure or Quit" which basically means, they have to stop hosting in 3 days (meaning, they have to cancel ALL the upcoming reservations they have, immediately) or else they can be evicted. If they cease hosting immediately, they will not be evicted.
On the other hand, there are also many tenants who are blessed to have landlords who give them permission to host in their rented apartment or house. I personally know 5 such tenant hosts. So, some landlords are generous and allow this. Even in those cases, however, if their apartment is rent controlled, those tenant hosts are, by city law, not allowed to rent out their space for more than they themselves pay in rent, or for more than their proportionate rent. Meaning, if a rent controlled tenant has a 2 bedroom apartment for which he pays $1500 in rent, he cannot make more than $750 a month from renting out one of those bedrooms on Airbnb, nor more than $1500 a month from renting out his whole apartment on Airbnb, (if for instance he goes on vacation). Tenants who are not in units subject to rent control do not have those limits placed on their income. Hence, for tenants in rent controlled units, there is not much incentive to rent out on Airbnb, unless the desire is to make the same income but with fewer days of roommate present. Eg if you can make the same income in 15 days with a part time roommate as in 30 days with a full time roommate, it may be nice to take the former and have more time to yourself in your unit.
As far as city law, New York city allows you to rent a room in your apartment or home AS LONG AS that apartment is your primary residence AND you are present when the guest is there. THere are several NYC Airbnb groups where there is a lot of info on NYC laws about Airbnb hosting, too, if you want to check those out.
If it isn't obvious, your rental agreement with your landlord trumps city law. So, what that means is, even if NYC law says that people can rent out a room in their residence if they live there and are present when guest is there, tenants cannot do this if their landlord prohibits it.