Post by High Priestess on Feb 22, 2016 22:44:17 GMT
Francesca shared 7 months ago on Hosting 911
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-160830
Should I or shouldn't I? I've never left a bad review but ...
"We had a rocky time of it - something I have never experienced with my previous long-term guests. Although I believe Eric enjoyed many aspects of my home and hospitality, he was vocal about not wanting to follow my usual standards of politeness, consideration for others and kitchen cleanliness that I had to put in writing during his 2 1/2 month stay.
At that point we both preferred he be re-homed but he changed his mind and then refused to leave. I relented and allowed him to stay on if he promised to followed the rules which he mostly did to the best of his ability. I truly believe he’s just a young guy used to doing things his own way and would be better suited to renting an entire home, a hotel room or staying in a dorm, where he could have visitors, parties and keep house as he pleases."
Should I leave it? Can't tell if its passive-aggressive or just a polite way of saying the truth.
What I'd REALLY like to write (but won't) is ...
"Eric could be sarcastic, rude and vindictive in his behavior during his 2 1/2 month stay in my home. He was disruptive at times, invited strange people over without asking, played guitar into the night, and had to constantly be reminded to clean the greasy stovetop and food bits after he cooked, wash his dishes, put them away. He even used my brand new washer-dryer that he knew was off limits. He admitted he purposely wouldn't say hello to me and banded my 3 other guests together to make fun of me and shut me out of my own home.
I’ve had many lovely long-term guests in the past but because of his actions, I had to institute a detailed House Rules (written from other airbnb host rules) for the first time ever, which he called "ridiculous" and said he intended to leave. After he realized there was no where else to go as cheap as my place, he changed his mind. I had already reported him to Airbnb and wanted him re-homed but then he REFUSED TO LEAVE. I relented only to avoid a messy, nasty legal battle and allowed him to stay on if he follows the House Rules. Which he "sort of" does, after I leave reminder notes to wash his dishes, put them away,
He only has a week or so to go and I CAN'T WAIT for him to be gone. He has poisoned my relationships with the other long-term guests and his presence is, at the very least, disconcerting as he constantly gives off an air of ill-concealed hatred for me while smiling benignly. Run, run, RUN from this entitled, nasty spoiled brat."
This is killing me. I have had such lovely relationships with my guests before this batch of interns. Suggestions on the first review?
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Andrew
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Keith
Keith7 months ago
ugh.. these same threads keep coming up.
The answer you're going to get from most people is "Leave an honest review".
That being said, I'm not sure I care for either of your proposed reviews.
the first is long winded and passive aggressive and it's more about what you didn't like than what he did wrong.
Whenever I read something like "they used my thingy which was off limits" what I interpret this to mean is "I taunt guests with stuff they can see but can't touch" this is ridiculous.
My advice is to keep it short and simple and convey the general theme that he was disrespectful. and that you wouldn't host him again.
details are really irrelevant at that point. the more fluff you add the more people will think his problems were specific rather than general.
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Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
I don't think it is ridiculous to have some of your items 'off-limits'. Guests are not babies, they should be able to follow rules.
Lisa
Lisa7 months ago
You're right Kelly. Months ago I had to insert into my house rules that my bedroom is off limits and under no circumstances, unless thre"'s a fire, do not enter. Because of 2 separate guests having no issue just walking on into my bedroom while I was getting ready, I had to list that as a rule which is ridiculous to have to list. I would think it's common sense! One would continuously enter and sit on my bed to chat regardless of my state of undress or hairdryer going. Keith maybe your house is a free for all but it's NOT OK for guests to access or use off limits places or items. Nobody's dangling a carrot, just asking guests to respect things.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Theres a difference between privacy and ridiculous. should they use your toothbrush or go into your private bedroom or office--of course not. One host had a coffee maker and was upset that guests used it. why is it there? if somethings in a common area, telling people they can't touch those things because they might break them is treating people like babies. I will say, if laundry isn't listed as an amenity then the guest shouldn't expect one, but if ones there it's fair for them to wonder why they can't use it. Lisa: this isn't about them going into a private area, it's about them using something that's sitting there... more absurd is having someone come for a long time stay and not letting them use on-site laundry facilities. If you generally have long term guests you should assume they'll need to do laundry--washing your close in the comfort of the home and sending them off to the laundromat is the same thing as eating ice cream in front of your child and telling them they can't have a bite. it's just silly.
Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
I think it was special about Airbnb that hosts could also expect the guests to cope with uniqueness of their places. As long as it was clearly stated in the listing, hosts have every right to make anything off-limit - if the guests didn't like that, they could simply book another listing. Each of us has different idea and limit of hospitality (basically right to decide what to offer and what not to offer). I know Airbnb is pushing hosts to offer everything seamlessly like hotels, plus extra on top of that these days, but let's respect each others uniqueness at least among us hosts.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Kelly..I agree with you.
Francesca
Francesca7 months ago
You have no idea what you are pontificating about, Keith, so your analogies are useless. Not only wasn't my brand new washer-dryer listed as an amenity (there WAS no in house washer-dryer at all), but I had made an announcement to the guests that it would be available to them in a couple of days once I had a chance to try it out myself and work out the details with my downstairs neighbor. But, quite frankly, if I had chosen NOT to offer it to my guests, that is my prerogative. It is in the BASEMENT - not being rubbed in their faces. As I posted in my comment below ... The "thingy" was a brand new $2500 front-loading washer/dryer set I had just purchased and had installed hours earlier. The stickers were still on it and it was a huge purchase for me. I wanted a chance to read the complex instructions, try it out and discuss the implications of having guests use it with my downstairs neighbor who pays for the electricity in that room. I didn't offer washer & dryer amenities for guests at the time so it wasn't expected. I wasn't taunting him with it nor was it anything he could "see but not touch" as it was two flights down in the basement. Eric knew I wanted to try it out before offering it to guests and purposely threw his clothes in using my detergent. "Hah, beat you to it," he said to me as I passed him on the stairs down to the basement. I see you are trying to paint a picture of me as a petty person who is stingy with sharing her amenities - when in fact, I love to share and am quite generous. Al my guests have full use of my kitchen: Keurig, Microwave, Toaster Oven, Magic Bullet, Nutri Bullet, Yonana - although I don't offer a cooked breakfast because of legalities, I buy boxes of croissants for 4 guests a couple of times a week, trail mix, snack bars, microwave popcorn, individual chip bags and provide to go coffee cups, keurig cups, refrigerated lunch bags. I have a gas BBQ grill plus all accompanying accessories for their use as well as an umbrella table and chairs. I threw a BBQ steak dinner for them when they all arrived and made Mojitos and Smores. I have a lounge and game area set up for them that includes sofa chairs, laptop holders, phone chargers, a set of free weights and a yoga mat. BEFORE I offered in-house laundry, I provided a rolling laundry cart, laundry hampers & laundry bags in each room and laundry cards for the 24-hr laundromat down the street. I suggest you ask more questions before you begin your campaign to trivialize another hosts issues.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Franchesca.. You made your point.. Although I wasn't painting a picture of you. My issue was that hosts often deny services to guests and then are surprised guests find this odd. the argument "read the listing and stop complaining" doesn't really excuse this attitude. We're offering a service. it seems you've been abused, and my original response suggested that you write your review about him and that it sounded more about you, which I still feel is the case. Perhaps after you have some time to reflect on the word choice you may feel the same way. If not, then you'll at least post your review with a clear conscience. In any case, if I gave you the impression I was accusing you specifically of anything, then I apologize. As for asking more questions... you asked for an opinion and gave limited information.. it's certainly reasonable for one to assume anything -- if you wish to give more complete information then you can expect more informed responses, so for that I can't apologize. It sounds like you're a lovely host. When you first posted about these guests I recall being supportive and empathetic of your plight. You view comments in this thread with full knowledge of the situation and not from the limited perspective you provided in your post as the reader must.
Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
'Service' is a relative term. Even in hotel industry, each hotel has their own level of service. If you want to host on Airbnb, hassle free and wanna have independent guests, you should be able to (probably charge low price). It is not another host to judge that host. Plus, this host community is where we vent the steam - just because the host complain about a guest, doesn't mean that host was 'not hospitable' to that guest.
Jeannette
Jeannette7 months ago
Good lord Keith, you seem to bring in some other post you read somewhere, sometime and throw it in the face of a host with a different problem. Not good.
Francesca
Francesca7 months ago
Keith, It seems that others found my original post far from limited, and, I did, in fact, explain things further - had you scrolled down past your own post and comments to read what others wrote you would have found my second post. And, as others have noticed, you seem obsessed by one sentence I wrote "He even used my brand new washer-dryer that he knew was off limits" and go on and on about how much you disdain this and that - totally bypassing all the extra information I gave about his disrespectful, disruptive behavior, lack of cleanliness, refusal to follow house rules and, worst of all, REFUSAL TO LEAVE. Instead you chose to hyperfocus on what appears to be your pet peeve - "laundry denial" or all these silly, ridiculous hosts who deny their hosts "thingys". So, please don't throw all that back on me. I was very clear about my situation and open about asking for help. Instead of sticking with your valid suggestion about trimming the review - you were hell-bent on using this as a platform to push your "guest-taunting" agenda onto me, and try to make me look foolish while you were doing it.
Lula
Lula7 months ago
Keith, you owe Francesca an apology, You owe us women, some are single women, an apology. You will never understand (not your fault) what it is to be a woman alone, being a Host. I always liked and respect your opinion; this was a disappointment. I hope for the benefit of everybody and your credibility, you own it. Other than that, you are the perfect Host.
Jeannette
Jeannette7 months ago
Agree with you Maria, re the need for an apology. For that matter, male hosts have just as much a right to set parameters, as so many of the great guys on these boards do, and nightmare guests put them thru the wringer, too.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Maria&Larry, and Jeannette... both of you are now guilty of what you accuse me of. Please before posting demands make sure you're up to date on comments. In one of my comments above I agreed with Kelly, and in one below that I offered an apology. Demanding one over and over again, especially after one's been given, is abusive. I also don't believe turning this into a gender issue is way out of bounds--Most of he hosts I know are women and few of them share your fears. In my personal experience, Ive run into many more hosts who are just chasing dollars and view guests as "lucky" for the privilege of giving up their money, than I have guests with unreasonable expectations. Given that this group exclusively has hosts, it's easy to get people to support you even if you're wrong (and, again, I'm not saying Franchesca is wrong, I'm simply providing a general example) is easy bait. it's like a politician giving a speech to supporters.. no matter how outlandish, they'll get a crowd cheering them on. Defending guests is necessary to make hosts better. I'm not a perfect host and I learn things from people in these forums and form guests all the time. I'm not always right and neither is anyone else here. If you want to encourage people to admit they're wrong stop making it so difficult for them when they do.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Kelly.. I have to disagree with your most recent comment. Guests judge hosts relative to one another and hosts (as is the case in this thread) are seeking approval to judge guests. If a host gives a guest a bad experience that may move that customer off the platform and some other hosts loose a future guest. Similarly, if one host is over accommodating then they set an unreasonable expectation and that affects the guests next host who has to right their expectations. When a host is asking for other hosts opinions, it's not fair to then say it's not another hosts place to judge--judgement and opinion is what's being requested. If a host said, "a guest was upset because I didn't change the sheets between guests--they looked clean" would you judge them? of course you would. (again, not saying that's what's going on with Franchesca, just responding to the general guideline you provided). Venting steam doesn't mean that no one gets to disagree with someone--you all seem to happily be criticizing me at the moment so lets just make sure we are all following the rules we set for others.
Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
Keith, as a platform of 'we are not hotel, we are community', I think it is ok if the host decide to host in that style - I don't change sheets between guests, you are responsible of doing laundry for yourself - if this is what the host wants, he/she should be able to. I know a host who did this way, mainly to meet interesting travelers, and now he even wrote a book with his experiences. Diversity, respect (on both side), and personality. All of things I like about Airbnb - is shedding away ot seems. And about loosing future guests - if that guest didn't read and has expectation issues, I would say that guest was never supposed to use Airbnb platform.
Jeannette
Jeannette7 months ago
If there's an apology in your verbal diarrhea, Keith, it's impossible to find even by searching "apology" and "sorry." And it's also apparently insincere given your continued abrasiveness.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Jeanette...it seems your very happy to insult people publicly. If you'll read my very original response it will be clear that what I said was how I would perceive her words...it wasn't an (email hidden)ter being accused I defended myself as is my right. Furthermore...my main advice was to be concise and you commented later the exact same thing. So when people only read select words or search for specific spellings of things and then insult someone expect them to become defensive about it. But here you are acting toward me in the same way you admonished me for acting. If anyone wishes to discuss this further I see no reason for this to continue in public.. Email me otherwise I won't respind on this thread....if you prefer to continue this as more opportunity to beat a dead horse that's up to you.
Fiona
Fiona7 months ago
Yikes Francesca! What a nightmare. I'd leave the first review - the key phrase no matter whatever else you write is that he refused to leave.
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Lisa
Lisa7 months ago
Francesca, I'm so happy to hear that the gang of 4 is at the end of their stay. I know how much discomfort they've caused you, particularly this fella, over the last few months. Big hugs.
As far as the review, that's a tough one as the issues are many and have gone on for a long time. Since guest stars are not revealed to other hosts, in the review try and remain as unemotional as possible, however difficult that may be. You can state that it was a long term rental, he didn't abide by the house rules, was quite loud at night and wouldn't clean his kitchen mess without multiple requests. Would not host again.
That would be enough of a flag to other hosts to contact you for detailed particulars.
So happy you're at the end of this guests stay!
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Fausta
Fausta7 months ago
Sounds like you went through quite an ordeal, of course you should leave a review. Just wait a few days before you write it, it will help you get some perspective.
As for some other unsolicited advice, and I am sorry if I am butting in here, next time you feel you are being disrespected and not getting along with a guest, just ask them to leave as soon as possible. Nip it in the bud and take their 'bad' review in stride. It's easier said than done, but nothing is worth living through that.
That said I hope you will never ever have this experience again and hope you feel better soon.
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Francesca
Francesca7 months ago
Thanks, Fausta, Lisa & Fiona, I have a week or so before he leaves so I have time to tweak it. I'm torn. I do think he's be fine renting a whole house - The thing is, I have no idea if he will trash me or write a nice review. I can't tell because he's hard to read. I know I've been a good host despite the issues that came up, but how he interprets that experience is a crap shoot.
Keith - ugh - it seems your condescension keep coming up, too. First of all - I have no intention of posting the second review - that was just to clarify what was really going on underneath.
Secondly, trivializing my experience with your - "they used my thingy which was off limits" what I interpret this to mean is "I taunt guests with stuff they can see but can't touch" this is ridiculous" - comment is not helpful at all. It's nasty.
The "thingy" was a brand new $2500 front-loading washer/dryer set I had just purchased and had installed hours earlier. The stickers were still on it and it was a huge purchase for me. I wanted a chance to read the complex instructions, try it out and discuss the implications of having guests use it with my downstairs neighbor who pays for the electricity in that room. I didn't offer washer & dryer amenities for guests at the time so it wasn't expected. I wasn't taunting him with it nor was it anything he could "see but not touch" as it was two flights down in the basement. Eric knew I wanted to try it out before offering it to guests and purposely threw his clothes in using my detergent. "Hah, beat you to it," he said to me as I passed him on the stairs down to the basement.
I don't think the review I had planned to leave was particularly "fluffy" but I do feel Lisa's specifics on streamlining it is helpful.
And I'm glad Fiona agrees that when a guest says, "I refuse to leave" it's a very serious matter for any Airbnb host. Aside from the possibilities of having a "squatter" on your hands, it's actually frightening for a woman to be told by a man that he refuses to leave your home. This is my HOME. I sleep here. This shit is serious, Keith, as "ridiculous" as you find it.
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Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
I also think when things are too complex to use, it is better not to offer them. And - threatening is a serious issue in Airbnb, I would raise this issue with a CX manager, so they can remove him from Airbnb.
Nathalie et Claude
Nathalie et Claude7 months ago
If he plays music at night, he is not suitable for a whole place. Exept in Mojave desert.
Salvia
Salvia7 months ago
You have all my empathy Francesca! Thankfully the end of this nightmare is near now. For the sake of other hosts please leave a review and I would lean towards Lisas version. A clear statement that he did not follow your houserules despite several talks, with the clear "enumeration" of points (and I would include a remark about his disruptive and "impolite" behaviour) closing with "I would not host him again" is a signal clear enough to other hosts. (Having had one "hostile" longterm -guest with me for a month I know how loooong the last HOURS. can feel. Keep going abd chin up!).
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C C
C C7 months ago
Francesca, I see no problem whatsoever in leaving the second review. If anyone deserves it he does & that's what the review system is for. Or else I'll write you one.
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Jeannette
Jeannette7 months ago
Normally I think shorter is sweeter, but I have no problem with the 2nd review in this case. He worked for it, he earned it. Further I would get him out NOW, refunding $$ if necessary.
Rick
Rick7 months ago
I would not rent to him after reading either review....so, I think either is good for prospective hosts to see
Lula
Lula7 months ago
Francesca, I am so sorry. I empathize with you so much about your predicament.
I was one the Hosts who posted some suggestions on how to deal with this problem, a while ago.
I honestly thought you took care of it, as I did not see any more comments from you.
How Awful. Please leave a review, as detailed as you want, as this experience warrants it.
We also host interns and long-term guests, for a few years and many, many times. Do not pay attention to the naysayers, you were right. It is your Home! You open the door to welcome guests, but it is still YOUR HOME.
You must emphasize in the review that the guest REFUSED to leave. That will ensure that he is not going to terrorize or bully another Host ever again. We host interns, many of them. We do not want him or their type in our house.
What surprises is the attitude of the other 3 interns! WTH? That is one of the reason you have to remove immediately their alpha-dog. I am sorry Francesca, but accepting this situation for over 2 months only brought you 3 more reviews, potentially negative. Make sure you also write Reviews about these 3 other guests. We do not want them in our homes, followers or not. You know what is right or wrong, they shouldn’t just follow Eric as the leader of the gang. I cannot fathom what this guy will be when he “grows up.” Right now, he is a bully.
??
P.S. (This is Maria talking now, Larry left the room): There are ways you could get rid of this unwanted Guest and you would have to use the same tactics he used. I would not have stopped even to go to his workplace (hospital, etc) , write a formal complaint to his school, leave a paper trail, post in the internet with his full name) and other things that probably are not too kosher (not illegal!) to share in this Forum. We would have put his things on the street. Bring the police!, they cannot force us to take him back, we will be referred to court (while he is couchsurfing or sleeping in this car), great internship he will have!. He can sue, bring it on, he will see how his name is spread around . His future job/internships prospects will be great!
Does this sound vindictive? No way. I am protecting my House, my sacred Home!
Good Luck! A Hug.
Before I continue scaring everybody in the Forum, please tell me you have a friend or somebody to stay with you upon his departure. Sociopaths like this guy will wait until the last minute to try to inflict more anguish or destroy, steal property.
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Joyce
Joyce7 months ago
I read through this post and all of the following comments a couple of hours ago and have had time for everything to roll around in my brain a little bit. This is just my opinion, but I think I'd consider keeping the review very short and as unemotional as possible. Perhaps "Eric stayed with me for 2.5 months during the summer of 2015. Unfortunately, I cannot recommend this guest for any host who is providing shared accommodations.", then leave the more detailed feedback about the guest in the notes to airbnb section so there will be documentation. Any host who has questions or concerns about your experience with this guest can contact you directly for more detail.
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best in extricating him and his cronies from your home when the time comes!
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Keith
Keith7 months ago
This is very good advice.
Nathalie et Claude
Nathalie et Claude7 months ago
Agree with you joyce.
Kristi
Kristi7 months ago
Francesca,
As another Host I would like to see an honest review. I would state a few issues and be short & to the point. I look at it as a Ted Talk, people can only handle as short statement & you lose them if its a long rant.
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Nathalie et Claude
Nathalie et Claude7 months ago
Bonjour Francesca, personally i would just write : 'x stayed 2,5 months. House rules were not respected. So unfortunatly we are not able to recommend him.' Other hosts are warned. Some may contact you for further information. When you give a negative feedback, never attack the person. Ex : x was noisy and did not clean his room. But : sleeping hours and tidyness rules where not respected.
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Louise
Louise7 months ago
I think the single most important thing to remember when posting a negative review - and I had the unpleasant task of doing this very recently - is this......
Make sure the review refers only to the behaviours of the guest that created problems and the actual problems created. Try not to mention how these behaviours made you feel at the time.
For example - A guest often wanders into my bedroom. This makes me feel violated and threatened. I won't say, "X walked into my bedroom (which was off limits) and this made me feel violated and threatened". I won't say this because the reader will know that my bedroom is off limits and they aren't really interested in how I feel. Instead I just say, "On several occasions X entered my bedroom uninvited. I would be unwilling to host her again." Let the reader join the dots, you don't have to do it for them.
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Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
Yes, it is important to simply address the situation. Other host would be able to tell anyway.
Donna
Donna7 months ago
Although I would have had a strong reaction if a guest "beat me to it," as he used your brand new appliance specifically against your wishes (cloths would never have been seen again ).. my biggest concern, and heart felt hugs to you; is that this guest is essentially a squatter that you have been living with. I had a squatter situation many years ago that lasted 6 months. I didn't live with the tenant, but it was enormously stressful. You're living with this guy! Wow. Just cannot imagine that level of animosity being directed as me while living with the person. So as I throw my 2 cents in, I think as a host I'd appreciate knowing that he refused to leave when asked. That takes his immaturity to a whole new level, and few hosts would ever want a former squatter in their homes. Nothing else about his behavior would need to be included in a review. I'd stop reading right there. Reservation request declined.
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Monica
Monica7 months ago
I read all suggestions of review and yet I still prefer the version of Francesca . I as a host prefer read a complete with a lot details of the guest. Anyway is just my opinon.
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Nathalie et Claude
Nathalie et Claude7 months ago
it is a very american point of view
In France, not to wash its dirty linen in private discridit the one who write it. it is a matter of culture. I would not choose such an host. Because i would not be confortable. Always on my guard.
Nathalie et Claude
Nathalie et Claude7 months ago
but without saying all the details, you can alert that it is a difficult guest.
Deborah
www.airbnb.com/groups/content/content-160830
Should I or shouldn't I? I've never left a bad review but ...
"We had a rocky time of it - something I have never experienced with my previous long-term guests. Although I believe Eric enjoyed many aspects of my home and hospitality, he was vocal about not wanting to follow my usual standards of politeness, consideration for others and kitchen cleanliness that I had to put in writing during his 2 1/2 month stay.
At that point we both preferred he be re-homed but he changed his mind and then refused to leave. I relented and allowed him to stay on if he promised to followed the rules which he mostly did to the best of his ability. I truly believe he’s just a young guy used to doing things his own way and would be better suited to renting an entire home, a hotel room or staying in a dorm, where he could have visitors, parties and keep house as he pleases."
Should I leave it? Can't tell if its passive-aggressive or just a polite way of saying the truth.
What I'd REALLY like to write (but won't) is ...
"Eric could be sarcastic, rude and vindictive in his behavior during his 2 1/2 month stay in my home. He was disruptive at times, invited strange people over without asking, played guitar into the night, and had to constantly be reminded to clean the greasy stovetop and food bits after he cooked, wash his dishes, put them away. He even used my brand new washer-dryer that he knew was off limits. He admitted he purposely wouldn't say hello to me and banded my 3 other guests together to make fun of me and shut me out of my own home.
I’ve had many lovely long-term guests in the past but because of his actions, I had to institute a detailed House Rules (written from other airbnb host rules) for the first time ever, which he called "ridiculous" and said he intended to leave. After he realized there was no where else to go as cheap as my place, he changed his mind. I had already reported him to Airbnb and wanted him re-homed but then he REFUSED TO LEAVE. I relented only to avoid a messy, nasty legal battle and allowed him to stay on if he follows the House Rules. Which he "sort of" does, after I leave reminder notes to wash his dishes, put them away,
He only has a week or so to go and I CAN'T WAIT for him to be gone. He has poisoned my relationships with the other long-term guests and his presence is, at the very least, disconcerting as he constantly gives off an air of ill-concealed hatred for me while smiling benignly. Run, run, RUN from this entitled, nasty spoiled brat."
This is killing me. I have had such lovely relationships with my guests before this batch of interns. Suggestions on the first review?
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Keith
Keith7 months ago
ugh.. these same threads keep coming up.
The answer you're going to get from most people is "Leave an honest review".
That being said, I'm not sure I care for either of your proposed reviews.
the first is long winded and passive aggressive and it's more about what you didn't like than what he did wrong.
Whenever I read something like "they used my thingy which was off limits" what I interpret this to mean is "I taunt guests with stuff they can see but can't touch" this is ridiculous.
My advice is to keep it short and simple and convey the general theme that he was disrespectful. and that you wouldn't host him again.
details are really irrelevant at that point. the more fluff you add the more people will think his problems were specific rather than general.
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Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
I don't think it is ridiculous to have some of your items 'off-limits'. Guests are not babies, they should be able to follow rules.
Lisa
Lisa7 months ago
You're right Kelly. Months ago I had to insert into my house rules that my bedroom is off limits and under no circumstances, unless thre"'s a fire, do not enter. Because of 2 separate guests having no issue just walking on into my bedroom while I was getting ready, I had to list that as a rule which is ridiculous to have to list. I would think it's common sense! One would continuously enter and sit on my bed to chat regardless of my state of undress or hairdryer going. Keith maybe your house is a free for all but it's NOT OK for guests to access or use off limits places or items. Nobody's dangling a carrot, just asking guests to respect things.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Theres a difference between privacy and ridiculous. should they use your toothbrush or go into your private bedroom or office--of course not. One host had a coffee maker and was upset that guests used it. why is it there? if somethings in a common area, telling people they can't touch those things because they might break them is treating people like babies. I will say, if laundry isn't listed as an amenity then the guest shouldn't expect one, but if ones there it's fair for them to wonder why they can't use it. Lisa: this isn't about them going into a private area, it's about them using something that's sitting there... more absurd is having someone come for a long time stay and not letting them use on-site laundry facilities. If you generally have long term guests you should assume they'll need to do laundry--washing your close in the comfort of the home and sending them off to the laundromat is the same thing as eating ice cream in front of your child and telling them they can't have a bite. it's just silly.
Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
I think it was special about Airbnb that hosts could also expect the guests to cope with uniqueness of their places. As long as it was clearly stated in the listing, hosts have every right to make anything off-limit - if the guests didn't like that, they could simply book another listing. Each of us has different idea and limit of hospitality (basically right to decide what to offer and what not to offer). I know Airbnb is pushing hosts to offer everything seamlessly like hotels, plus extra on top of that these days, but let's respect each others uniqueness at least among us hosts.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Kelly..I agree with you.
Francesca
Francesca7 months ago
You have no idea what you are pontificating about, Keith, so your analogies are useless. Not only wasn't my brand new washer-dryer listed as an amenity (there WAS no in house washer-dryer at all), but I had made an announcement to the guests that it would be available to them in a couple of days once I had a chance to try it out myself and work out the details with my downstairs neighbor. But, quite frankly, if I had chosen NOT to offer it to my guests, that is my prerogative. It is in the BASEMENT - not being rubbed in their faces. As I posted in my comment below ... The "thingy" was a brand new $2500 front-loading washer/dryer set I had just purchased and had installed hours earlier. The stickers were still on it and it was a huge purchase for me. I wanted a chance to read the complex instructions, try it out and discuss the implications of having guests use it with my downstairs neighbor who pays for the electricity in that room. I didn't offer washer & dryer amenities for guests at the time so it wasn't expected. I wasn't taunting him with it nor was it anything he could "see but not touch" as it was two flights down in the basement. Eric knew I wanted to try it out before offering it to guests and purposely threw his clothes in using my detergent. "Hah, beat you to it," he said to me as I passed him on the stairs down to the basement. I see you are trying to paint a picture of me as a petty person who is stingy with sharing her amenities - when in fact, I love to share and am quite generous. Al my guests have full use of my kitchen: Keurig, Microwave, Toaster Oven, Magic Bullet, Nutri Bullet, Yonana - although I don't offer a cooked breakfast because of legalities, I buy boxes of croissants for 4 guests a couple of times a week, trail mix, snack bars, microwave popcorn, individual chip bags and provide to go coffee cups, keurig cups, refrigerated lunch bags. I have a gas BBQ grill plus all accompanying accessories for their use as well as an umbrella table and chairs. I threw a BBQ steak dinner for them when they all arrived and made Mojitos and Smores. I have a lounge and game area set up for them that includes sofa chairs, laptop holders, phone chargers, a set of free weights and a yoga mat. BEFORE I offered in-house laundry, I provided a rolling laundry cart, laundry hampers & laundry bags in each room and laundry cards for the 24-hr laundromat down the street. I suggest you ask more questions before you begin your campaign to trivialize another hosts issues.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Franchesca.. You made your point.. Although I wasn't painting a picture of you. My issue was that hosts often deny services to guests and then are surprised guests find this odd. the argument "read the listing and stop complaining" doesn't really excuse this attitude. We're offering a service. it seems you've been abused, and my original response suggested that you write your review about him and that it sounded more about you, which I still feel is the case. Perhaps after you have some time to reflect on the word choice you may feel the same way. If not, then you'll at least post your review with a clear conscience. In any case, if I gave you the impression I was accusing you specifically of anything, then I apologize. As for asking more questions... you asked for an opinion and gave limited information.. it's certainly reasonable for one to assume anything -- if you wish to give more complete information then you can expect more informed responses, so for that I can't apologize. It sounds like you're a lovely host. When you first posted about these guests I recall being supportive and empathetic of your plight. You view comments in this thread with full knowledge of the situation and not from the limited perspective you provided in your post as the reader must.
Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
'Service' is a relative term. Even in hotel industry, each hotel has their own level of service. If you want to host on Airbnb, hassle free and wanna have independent guests, you should be able to (probably charge low price). It is not another host to judge that host. Plus, this host community is where we vent the steam - just because the host complain about a guest, doesn't mean that host was 'not hospitable' to that guest.
Jeannette
Jeannette7 months ago
Good lord Keith, you seem to bring in some other post you read somewhere, sometime and throw it in the face of a host with a different problem. Not good.
Francesca
Francesca7 months ago
Keith, It seems that others found my original post far from limited, and, I did, in fact, explain things further - had you scrolled down past your own post and comments to read what others wrote you would have found my second post. And, as others have noticed, you seem obsessed by one sentence I wrote "He even used my brand new washer-dryer that he knew was off limits" and go on and on about how much you disdain this and that - totally bypassing all the extra information I gave about his disrespectful, disruptive behavior, lack of cleanliness, refusal to follow house rules and, worst of all, REFUSAL TO LEAVE. Instead you chose to hyperfocus on what appears to be your pet peeve - "laundry denial" or all these silly, ridiculous hosts who deny their hosts "thingys". So, please don't throw all that back on me. I was very clear about my situation and open about asking for help. Instead of sticking with your valid suggestion about trimming the review - you were hell-bent on using this as a platform to push your "guest-taunting" agenda onto me, and try to make me look foolish while you were doing it.
Lula
Lula7 months ago
Keith, you owe Francesca an apology, You owe us women, some are single women, an apology. You will never understand (not your fault) what it is to be a woman alone, being a Host. I always liked and respect your opinion; this was a disappointment. I hope for the benefit of everybody and your credibility, you own it. Other than that, you are the perfect Host.
Jeannette
Jeannette7 months ago
Agree with you Maria, re the need for an apology. For that matter, male hosts have just as much a right to set parameters, as so many of the great guys on these boards do, and nightmare guests put them thru the wringer, too.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Maria&Larry, and Jeannette... both of you are now guilty of what you accuse me of. Please before posting demands make sure you're up to date on comments. In one of my comments above I agreed with Kelly, and in one below that I offered an apology. Demanding one over and over again, especially after one's been given, is abusive. I also don't believe turning this into a gender issue is way out of bounds--Most of he hosts I know are women and few of them share your fears. In my personal experience, Ive run into many more hosts who are just chasing dollars and view guests as "lucky" for the privilege of giving up their money, than I have guests with unreasonable expectations. Given that this group exclusively has hosts, it's easy to get people to support you even if you're wrong (and, again, I'm not saying Franchesca is wrong, I'm simply providing a general example) is easy bait. it's like a politician giving a speech to supporters.. no matter how outlandish, they'll get a crowd cheering them on. Defending guests is necessary to make hosts better. I'm not a perfect host and I learn things from people in these forums and form guests all the time. I'm not always right and neither is anyone else here. If you want to encourage people to admit they're wrong stop making it so difficult for them when they do.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Kelly.. I have to disagree with your most recent comment. Guests judge hosts relative to one another and hosts (as is the case in this thread) are seeking approval to judge guests. If a host gives a guest a bad experience that may move that customer off the platform and some other hosts loose a future guest. Similarly, if one host is over accommodating then they set an unreasonable expectation and that affects the guests next host who has to right their expectations. When a host is asking for other hosts opinions, it's not fair to then say it's not another hosts place to judge--judgement and opinion is what's being requested. If a host said, "a guest was upset because I didn't change the sheets between guests--they looked clean" would you judge them? of course you would. (again, not saying that's what's going on with Franchesca, just responding to the general guideline you provided). Venting steam doesn't mean that no one gets to disagree with someone--you all seem to happily be criticizing me at the moment so lets just make sure we are all following the rules we set for others.
Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
Keith, as a platform of 'we are not hotel, we are community', I think it is ok if the host decide to host in that style - I don't change sheets between guests, you are responsible of doing laundry for yourself - if this is what the host wants, he/she should be able to. I know a host who did this way, mainly to meet interesting travelers, and now he even wrote a book with his experiences. Diversity, respect (on both side), and personality. All of things I like about Airbnb - is shedding away ot seems. And about loosing future guests - if that guest didn't read and has expectation issues, I would say that guest was never supposed to use Airbnb platform.
Jeannette
Jeannette7 months ago
If there's an apology in your verbal diarrhea, Keith, it's impossible to find even by searching "apology" and "sorry." And it's also apparently insincere given your continued abrasiveness.
Keith
Keith7 months ago
Jeanette...it seems your very happy to insult people publicly. If you'll read my very original response it will be clear that what I said was how I would perceive her words...it wasn't an (email hidden)ter being accused I defended myself as is my right. Furthermore...my main advice was to be concise and you commented later the exact same thing. So when people only read select words or search for specific spellings of things and then insult someone expect them to become defensive about it. But here you are acting toward me in the same way you admonished me for acting. If anyone wishes to discuss this further I see no reason for this to continue in public.. Email me otherwise I won't respind on this thread....if you prefer to continue this as more opportunity to beat a dead horse that's up to you.
Fiona
Fiona7 months ago
Yikes Francesca! What a nightmare. I'd leave the first review - the key phrase no matter whatever else you write is that he refused to leave.
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Lisa
Lisa7 months ago
Francesca, I'm so happy to hear that the gang of 4 is at the end of their stay. I know how much discomfort they've caused you, particularly this fella, over the last few months. Big hugs.
As far as the review, that's a tough one as the issues are many and have gone on for a long time. Since guest stars are not revealed to other hosts, in the review try and remain as unemotional as possible, however difficult that may be. You can state that it was a long term rental, he didn't abide by the house rules, was quite loud at night and wouldn't clean his kitchen mess without multiple requests. Would not host again.
That would be enough of a flag to other hosts to contact you for detailed particulars.
So happy you're at the end of this guests stay!
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Fausta
Fausta7 months ago
Sounds like you went through quite an ordeal, of course you should leave a review. Just wait a few days before you write it, it will help you get some perspective.
As for some other unsolicited advice, and I am sorry if I am butting in here, next time you feel you are being disrespected and not getting along with a guest, just ask them to leave as soon as possible. Nip it in the bud and take their 'bad' review in stride. It's easier said than done, but nothing is worth living through that.
That said I hope you will never ever have this experience again and hope you feel better soon.
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Francesca
Francesca7 months ago
Thanks, Fausta, Lisa & Fiona, I have a week or so before he leaves so I have time to tweak it. I'm torn. I do think he's be fine renting a whole house - The thing is, I have no idea if he will trash me or write a nice review. I can't tell because he's hard to read. I know I've been a good host despite the issues that came up, but how he interprets that experience is a crap shoot.
Keith - ugh - it seems your condescension keep coming up, too. First of all - I have no intention of posting the second review - that was just to clarify what was really going on underneath.
Secondly, trivializing my experience with your - "they used my thingy which was off limits" what I interpret this to mean is "I taunt guests with stuff they can see but can't touch" this is ridiculous" - comment is not helpful at all. It's nasty.
The "thingy" was a brand new $2500 front-loading washer/dryer set I had just purchased and had installed hours earlier. The stickers were still on it and it was a huge purchase for me. I wanted a chance to read the complex instructions, try it out and discuss the implications of having guests use it with my downstairs neighbor who pays for the electricity in that room. I didn't offer washer & dryer amenities for guests at the time so it wasn't expected. I wasn't taunting him with it nor was it anything he could "see but not touch" as it was two flights down in the basement. Eric knew I wanted to try it out before offering it to guests and purposely threw his clothes in using my detergent. "Hah, beat you to it," he said to me as I passed him on the stairs down to the basement.
I don't think the review I had planned to leave was particularly "fluffy" but I do feel Lisa's specifics on streamlining it is helpful.
And I'm glad Fiona agrees that when a guest says, "I refuse to leave" it's a very serious matter for any Airbnb host. Aside from the possibilities of having a "squatter" on your hands, it's actually frightening for a woman to be told by a man that he refuses to leave your home. This is my HOME. I sleep here. This shit is serious, Keith, as "ridiculous" as you find it.
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Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
I also think when things are too complex to use, it is better not to offer them. And - threatening is a serious issue in Airbnb, I would raise this issue with a CX manager, so they can remove him from Airbnb.
Nathalie et Claude
Nathalie et Claude7 months ago
If he plays music at night, he is not suitable for a whole place. Exept in Mojave desert.
Salvia
Salvia7 months ago
You have all my empathy Francesca! Thankfully the end of this nightmare is near now. For the sake of other hosts please leave a review and I would lean towards Lisas version. A clear statement that he did not follow your houserules despite several talks, with the clear "enumeration" of points (and I would include a remark about his disruptive and "impolite" behaviour) closing with "I would not host him again" is a signal clear enough to other hosts. (Having had one "hostile" longterm -guest with me for a month I know how loooong the last HOURS. can feel. Keep going abd chin up!).
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C C
C C7 months ago
Francesca, I see no problem whatsoever in leaving the second review. If anyone deserves it he does & that's what the review system is for. Or else I'll write you one.
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Jeannette
Jeannette7 months ago
Normally I think shorter is sweeter, but I have no problem with the 2nd review in this case. He worked for it, he earned it. Further I would get him out NOW, refunding $$ if necessary.
Rick
Rick7 months ago
I would not rent to him after reading either review....so, I think either is good for prospective hosts to see
Lula
Lula7 months ago
Francesca, I am so sorry. I empathize with you so much about your predicament.
I was one the Hosts who posted some suggestions on how to deal with this problem, a while ago.
I honestly thought you took care of it, as I did not see any more comments from you.
How Awful. Please leave a review, as detailed as you want, as this experience warrants it.
We also host interns and long-term guests, for a few years and many, many times. Do not pay attention to the naysayers, you were right. It is your Home! You open the door to welcome guests, but it is still YOUR HOME.
You must emphasize in the review that the guest REFUSED to leave. That will ensure that he is not going to terrorize or bully another Host ever again. We host interns, many of them. We do not want him or their type in our house.
What surprises is the attitude of the other 3 interns! WTH? That is one of the reason you have to remove immediately their alpha-dog. I am sorry Francesca, but accepting this situation for over 2 months only brought you 3 more reviews, potentially negative. Make sure you also write Reviews about these 3 other guests. We do not want them in our homes, followers or not. You know what is right or wrong, they shouldn’t just follow Eric as the leader of the gang. I cannot fathom what this guy will be when he “grows up.” Right now, he is a bully.
??P.S. (This is Maria talking now, Larry left the room): There are ways you could get rid of this unwanted Guest and you would have to use the same tactics he used. I would not have stopped even to go to his workplace (hospital, etc) , write a formal complaint to his school, leave a paper trail, post in the internet with his full name) and other things that probably are not too kosher (not illegal!) to share in this Forum. We would have put his things on the street. Bring the police!, they cannot force us to take him back, we will be referred to court (while he is couchsurfing or sleeping in this car), great internship he will have!. He can sue, bring it on, he will see how his name is spread around . His future job/internships prospects will be great!
Does this sound vindictive? No way. I am protecting my House, my sacred Home!
Good Luck! A Hug.
Before I continue scaring everybody in the Forum, please tell me you have a friend or somebody to stay with you upon his departure. Sociopaths like this guy will wait until the last minute to try to inflict more anguish or destroy, steal property.
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Joyce
Joyce7 months ago
I read through this post and all of the following comments a couple of hours ago and have had time for everything to roll around in my brain a little bit. This is just my opinion, but I think I'd consider keeping the review very short and as unemotional as possible. Perhaps "Eric stayed with me for 2.5 months during the summer of 2015. Unfortunately, I cannot recommend this guest for any host who is providing shared accommodations.", then leave the more detailed feedback about the guest in the notes to airbnb section so there will be documentation. Any host who has questions or concerns about your experience with this guest can contact you directly for more detail.
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best in extricating him and his cronies from your home when the time comes!
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Keith
Keith7 months ago
This is very good advice.
Nathalie et Claude
Nathalie et Claude7 months ago
Agree with you joyce.
Kristi
Kristi7 months ago
Francesca,
As another Host I would like to see an honest review. I would state a few issues and be short & to the point. I look at it as a Ted Talk, people can only handle as short statement & you lose them if its a long rant.
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Nathalie et Claude
Nathalie et Claude7 months ago
Bonjour Francesca, personally i would just write : 'x stayed 2,5 months. House rules were not respected. So unfortunatly we are not able to recommend him.' Other hosts are warned. Some may contact you for further information. When you give a negative feedback, never attack the person. Ex : x was noisy and did not clean his room. But : sleeping hours and tidyness rules where not respected.
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Louise
Louise7 months ago
I think the single most important thing to remember when posting a negative review - and I had the unpleasant task of doing this very recently - is this......
Make sure the review refers only to the behaviours of the guest that created problems and the actual problems created. Try not to mention how these behaviours made you feel at the time.
For example - A guest often wanders into my bedroom. This makes me feel violated and threatened. I won't say, "X walked into my bedroom (which was off limits) and this made me feel violated and threatened". I won't say this because the reader will know that my bedroom is off limits and they aren't really interested in how I feel. Instead I just say, "On several occasions X entered my bedroom uninvited. I would be unwilling to host her again." Let the reader join the dots, you don't have to do it for them.
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Kelly
Kelly7 months ago
Yes, it is important to simply address the situation. Other host would be able to tell anyway.
Donna
Donna7 months ago
Although I would have had a strong reaction if a guest "beat me to it," as he used your brand new appliance specifically against your wishes (cloths would never have been seen again ).. my biggest concern, and heart felt hugs to you; is that this guest is essentially a squatter that you have been living with. I had a squatter situation many years ago that lasted 6 months. I didn't live with the tenant, but it was enormously stressful. You're living with this guy! Wow. Just cannot imagine that level of animosity being directed as me while living with the person. So as I throw my 2 cents in, I think as a host I'd appreciate knowing that he refused to leave when asked. That takes his immaturity to a whole new level, and few hosts would ever want a former squatter in their homes. Nothing else about his behavior would need to be included in a review. I'd stop reading right there. Reservation request declined.
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Monica
Monica7 months ago
I read all suggestions of review and yet I still prefer the version of Francesca . I as a host prefer read a complete with a lot details of the guest. Anyway is just my opinon.
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Nathalie et Claude
Nathalie et Claude7 months ago
it is a very american point of view
In France, not to wash its dirty linen in private discridit the one who write it. it is a matter of culture. I would not choose such an host. Because i would not be confortable. Always on my guard.Nathalie et Claude
Nathalie et Claude7 months ago
but without saying all the details, you can alert that it is a difficult guest.
Deborah
